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AST/TO Ratio: The Sleeper Category

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Re: AST/TO Ratio: The Sleeper Category

Postby Mimicker7 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:11 pm

ChipaDub wrote:In my experience this isn't necessarily true either. BBM doesn't calculate its values based on the stats actually scored in your league. While there will be a common thread of particular players, a significant chunk of stats will weigh in on BBMs ranks, but not be pertinent to your leagues scoring totals whatsoever.


What do you mean that BBM will use stats that won't be pertinent to the leagues' scoring totals whatsoever? If you ask BBM to rank the 9-cats in your league, then it's using all the stats that are pertinent to your league, right?

Your examples of comparing Lebron is one way to look at it, but I'm not sure it's of much use. I think we all know how many leagues have been won with Marion's stats of the past few years and not Lebron's. I see where you're going with a Battier comparison, but he's not drafted anywhere near those two, as Nash and Billups drafted near each other are as well. Too illustrate the point I was making in using Billups as the prototypical example of the ast/to strategy I'd use Nash and Billup's seasons I benefited most from the strategy, '06 and '07. In 2007 Billups average value effect of ast and TO on his total bbm score was 1.87+0.03= 1.90, Nash 3.99 - 2.34 = 1.65. In '06 it was 2.62-.32 = 2.30 CB, 3.49-2.22 = 1.28 SN.


Oh, I was not at all implying that Lebron was better than Marion, but just showing that AST/TO ratio does not show the whole story when talking about the effect of a player's TO's on a team. I too get giddy about a Nash or Billups (or Paul or Calderon now) and their AST/TO ratio, but I believe that's more about the scarcity of good PG's than their AST/TO ratio.
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Re: AST/TO Ratio: The Sleeper Category

Postby Jerusalem Garden » Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:45 pm

You make a stimulating point, mimicker, but I'm not quite sure if I get how it relates to the asst/to category. Lebron helps your team more in asst than Marion/Battier, but he hurts you more in to's. That's obvious. And your analysis bears out that, in a league in which asst and to's were the only stats, Battier/Marion would be more ueseful than Lebron.

But in a league in which asst, to, and asst/to were the only stats, Lebron's value increases relative to Battier/Marion's. The original post wasn't about asst/to ratio as a cheat for calculating respective asst and to value, but as a stat in and of itself. If in H2H, the average winning ratio per week is around 1.9, then anyone with a 2:1 or better would be valuable. And, assuming your team aside from this player is, as a whole, below 2:1,those with a high volume 2:1 or better would would tend to be a better value than someone with the same ration and with a low volume. (E.g. Lebron's 2.1 ratio would be more valuable overall than Dorell Wright's 2.1 from last year).

I might be putting the average winning ration a little low--I'm just taking a guess from memory--but other than that, am I missing something?
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Re: AST/TO Ratio: The Sleeper Category

Postby CarnivalMafia » Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:26 pm

I´ve always been big on Ast/To ratio.

I´m a Roto fan and in my experience it´s most important to stay away from those guys with a horrible ratio.

But if you are going to focus on Ast/TO it has to be not only for one player but for your whole team. My best Ast/TO combination while winning a league has been 12 pts in Ast and 8 pts in TO´s for combined 20pts. And that was putting a big emphasis on Ast/TO.

Keep in mind that if you get a 12 in one of those cats and a 1 in the other you have a combined 13 pts which is pretty easy to do( not neccesarily 12 & 1 but maybe 9 & 4 etc.).

The most important is not to be the guy with a 6 in Ast and a 2 in TO´s. That´s a killer!

By focusing on Ast/TO you have to pass on a lot of players and it is difficult to put together a balanced team across all 9 cats. Which some may argue may hurt you more than help you.

What are other opinions on how much to focus on Ast/TO?
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Re: AST/TO Ratio: The Sleeper Category

Postby ChipaDub » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:47 am

Mimicker - BBM will count a significant about of stats in it's player valuation which will never appear in your opponents starting daily rosters.
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Re: AST/TO Ratio: The Sleeper Category

Postby Mimicker7 » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:14 pm

ChipaDub wrote:Mimicker - BBM will count a significant about of stats in it's player valuation which will never appear in your opponents starting daily rosters.

You mean they count stats from players who are not ever drafted in your league? Is that what you're talking about?
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Re: AST/TO Ratio: The Sleeper Category

Postby shawngee03 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:48 pm

in one league last year we had ass, TO, and A/TO as cats. i liked the a/to. it made me look at certain guys differently.

my question is, im setting up a league soon, and am wondering should i just use a/to instead of ass and to, or all 3? are there pros and conns either way?
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Re: AST/TO Ratio: The Sleeper Category

Postby phx_2008_champs » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:07 pm

If you use the standard nine and include A/TO Ratio, you are favoring the PG's significantly. Chris Paul's #1 spot becomes even more clear. If you use it, make sure to go small!
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Re: AST/TO Ratio: The Sleeper Category

Postby RedHopeful » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:30 pm

shawngee03 wrote:in one league last year we had ass, TO, and A/TO as cats. i liked the a/to. it made me look at certain guys differently.

my question is, im setting up a league soon, and am wondering should i just use a/to instead of ass and to, or all 3? are there pros and conns either way?


Shawngee, did you read this entire thread? It should kind of answer your questions. In essence, the option to use anything with TO's is an efficiency question. If it's ok or it doesn't bother you, go ahead and use it as it's a part of the real game. If it does bother you, I suggest either eliminating it entirely or perhaps just using the a/to ratio. In using all 3, as phx_champs stated, it'll usually raise the value of PG's (or any player who has greater assists than turnovers). It's all just a matter of preference...
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Re: AST/TO Ratio: The Sleeper Category

Postby bokzg » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:05 pm

A/TO ratio is typically a guard-friendly category, much like 3PTM, FT%, AST, and STL. If you're going to use AST/TO in addition to AST and TO, then I would suggest tossing in another big man category as well to balance things out, i.e. OREB, DREB. Doing so, would tend to even things out so that the league doesn't favor smallball or bigball.

Standard 9-cat:
Small: 3PTM, AST, STL, FT% (4)
Big: REB, BLK, TO, FG% (4)
Tiebreaker: PTS

Recommended 11-cat:
Small: 3PTM, AST, STL, AST/TO, FT% (5)
Big: DREB, REB, BLK, TO, FG% (5)
Tiebreaker: PTS
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Re: AST/TO Ratio: The Sleeper Category

Postby mbuser » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:33 pm

in general, you want to avoid redundant categories, regardless of what they are
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