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Re: 2010-2011 Offseason Discussion

Postby jphanned » Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:01 pm

Some good back and forth here.

I was one of the guys who, when we initially established the rules, argued for eliminating the H2H playoffs altogether. This system has really grown on me though and I do like it the way that it currently is. The reason why H2H is so much more popular than ROTO in general is the playoffs, plain and simple. ROTO becomes a marathon, a 6-month grind with one day technically with just as meaning as the next. With H2H you get the light at the end of the tunnel effect in the form of the playoffs. It really is something I look forward to at the end of every season, whether or not I agree/disagree with the random nature of it. It injects life into the league and keeps people interested. What we have done is keep that effect in place that boosts interest while severely cutting down on its random effects. I think the impact of the H2H playoffs on the cumulative winning % is a bit overblown here and I don't think there is much potential for a drastic change in the rankings like some may have suggested. I haven't seen it in this league's 4-year history and I can say that confidently having played H2H all 4 years (whether it be First Division or Champions League). With the 3/6 and 2/4 seed 1st-round matchups combined with the 1 & 2 seed byes, you're almost guaranteed to stay in the top-3 if you finish top-2 in the regular season. I hear the validity of playing everyone twice Oleh, but one team having a slight edge in scheduling is no new thing to sports in general. It happens and good teams/managers find a way to deal with it. I love the idea of pitting the best teams in the league against each other at the end of the season just to see how it plays out and who emerges on top (without it having a significant impact on what these teams showed in the first 21 or so weeks of the regular season).
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Re: 2010-2011 Offseason Discussion

Postby bokzg » Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:59 pm

Personally, one of my biggest gripes about H2H is the fact that the most important games end up taking place during the most meaningless part of the actual NBA season when teams are either tanking, coasting, or have nothing to play for. At that point, it becomes a disadvantage to being the better manager all season, because typically your roster has better depth than most and you're less able to add/drop random 3rd-stringers who suddenly get minutes like those who have worse depth. There is really no good reason for, and quite a few against, giving the final few weeks of the NBA season any additional significance over any other week during the season, and that's why I liked the compromise system the Octagon came up with.

However, the compromise we came up was a result of the fact that we didn't have the ability to remove the H2H playoffs back when we came up with it. I am certain that we would have if we had been able to, and I see no reason why we shouldn't now. The entire goal of our modification to the H2H system was to remove the extra significance of the H2H playoffs and to rewards those managers who did well over the course of the season, and removing the H2H playoffs promotes that goal. Keeping the compromise system would be using an inferior solution to a problem.

Further, I believe a large part of the appeal of the H2H system is the weekly matchups, not necessarily the H2H playoffs. I think people like going up against specific opponents mano-a-mano, to see which team is "better" (albeit just for that particular week). This also helps keep bottom-dwelling teams active as they can at least experience minor victories by beating their weekly opponents even if they have no shot at winning the whole thing or making it into the top group who advance/stay. You still get that by removing the H2H playoffs, and I think that's all we need from the H2H system as it currently works.

Lastly, when it comes to the argument that the H2H playoffs allow the top teams to face each other, I don't think it's a particularly good one. All you'd be seeing is the top teams competing against each other during the least important time of the NBA season, struggling to see who can grab that out-of-nowhere player who is suddenly going to soak up minutes because the team doesn't care anymore, or juggling players who just happen to have more games during each week as opposed to the best players period. I'd argue the most meaningful games would be the weekly matchups earlier in the season between the top teams, which are no less significant for the time they take place as a team's performance during any week of the fantasy basketball season has significance under the Octagon H2H format that considers performance over the entire season. Just as the regular season matchups this season between the Lakers and the Heat (which won't be taking place during the last two weeks for a reason) will likely be the most exciting and watched NBA regular season games despite being in the middle and not the end of the schedule, the matchup between two top fantasy teams during the middle of the season in the thick of competition will be no less great by not occurring at the end.
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Re: 2010-2011 First Division H2H Draft Log & Rosters

Postby biznac » Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:02 pm

Team Biznac

PG: Mo Williams (PG - CLE)
SG: Marcus Thornton (SG - NOH)
G: Reggie Williams (GF - GSW)
SF: Caron Butler (GF - DAL)
PF: Josh Smith (F - ATL)
F: Paul Millsap (UTA - PF)
C: Pau Gasol (PF/C - LAL)
C: Carlos Boozer (PF/C - CHI)
UTIL: Tony Parker (PG - SAS)
UTIL: Andre Miller (PG - POR)

BN: Wesley Johnson (SF - MIN)
BN: Taj Gibson (PF - CHI)
BN: Brandan Wright (PF - GSW)
Last edited by biznac on Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:56 am, edited 9 times in total.
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thanks soty!
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Re: 2010-2011 Offseason Discussion

Postby jphanned » Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:21 pm

Points taken bokzg. samo and I will take everything that has been said into consideration to determine what is best for the league. We have always been open to change and new ideas so long as it improves the level of competition for all involved. There will be no permanent rule change put into place for this season, but we will definitely rule on this for the 2011-2012 season. ;-D
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Re: 2010-2011 First Division H2H Draft Log & Rosters

Postby ardilla » Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:37 am

ardzilla

PG: Jason Terry (6.09)
SG: Joe Johnson (3.04)
G: Gilbert Arenas (7.04)
SF: Danilo Gallinari (4.09)
PF: Dirk Nowitzki (1.04)
F: Rudy Gay (5.04)
C: Chris Bosh (2.09)
C: Luis Scola (8.09)
UTIL: Blake Griffin (9.05)
UTIL: Chris Kaman (10.09)

BN: Ron Artest (11.04)
BN: James Harden (12.09)
BN: DeMarcus Cousins (13.04)
Last edited by ardilla on Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:31 pm, edited 16 times in total.
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Re: 2010-2011 First Division ROTO Draft Log & Rosters

Postby baller crimson » Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:29 am

bc

PG: Steve Nash (PG, PHX)
SG: Kobe Bryant (SG, LAL)
G: Caron Butler (SG/SF, DAL)
SF: Jason Richardson (SG/SF, PHX)
PF: Andrei Kirilenko (SF/PF, UTA)
F: Marcus Camby (PF/C, POR)
C (2): Carlos Boozer (PF/C, CHI), Roy Hibbert (C, IND)
UT (2): Al Harrington (PF/C, DEN), Corey Maggette (SG/SF, MIL)

BN (3): Jarrett Jack (G, TOR), DeMar DeRozan (GF, TOR), Jason Thompson (PF/C, SAC)
Last edited by baller crimson on Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:50 am, edited 17 times in total.
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Re: 2010-2011 Offseason Discussion

Postby samo » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:09 am

Rounders Block wrote:Points taken bokzg. samo and I will take everything that has been said into consideration to determine what is best for the league. We have always been open to change and new ideas so long as it improves the level of competition for all involved. There will be no permanent rule change put into place for this season, but we will definitely rule on this for the 2011-2012 season. ;-D

I'm going to suggest we not require the two H2H leagues to use the Playoffs with cumulative win/loss system this season but that we instead leave it up to each Commish (and league) to make a decision before the season starts and to stick with it all season. So long as the cumulative win/loss percentage is used I believe it's legitimate "Octagon H2H" scoring, and whether its Modified Playoffs or the Yahoo No Playoffs is really immaterial. I'm not even sure we need to make a permanent change to the Octagon Rules at season end, but just leave it up to each H2H Commish as a perk of their taking on the task of their running the league.

RB, do you feel strongly to the contrary that the two H2H leagues should be required to use Playoffs this season? I just don't see any reason to force that on them, as the objective of Octagon H2H scoring is well-served by the No Playoff option, despite my personal preference to face off against my main opponents at season end rather than watch them pound the #$%* out of some dead team.
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Re: 2010-2011 Offseason Discussion

Postby jphanned » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:27 am

samo wrote:I'm going to suggest we not require the two H2H leagues to use the Playoffs with cumulative win/loss system this season but that we instead leave it up to each Commish (and league) to make a decision before the season starts and to stick with it all season. So long as the cumulative win/loss percentage is used I believe it's legitimate "Octagon H2H" scoring, and whether its Modified Playoffs or the Yahoo No Playoffs is really immaterial. I'm not even sure we need to make a permanent change to the Octagon Rules at season end, but just leave it up to each H2H Commish as a perk of their taking on the task of their running the league.

RB, do you feel strongly to the contrary that the two H2H leagues should be required to use Playoffs this season? I just don't see any reason to force that on them, as the objective of Octagon H2H scoring is well-served by the No Playoff option, despite my personal preference to face off against my main opponents at season end rather than watch them pound the #$%* out of some dead team.


Already had the H2H commishes send out PM's to everyone in their league asking them to vote on the issue. If the majority is for it then the league will do away with the playoffs. ;-D

EDIT: On that note, can I get some updates from bokzg and Red on where the voting stands?
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Re: 2010-2011 Offseason Discussion

Postby bokzg » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:32 am

Rounders Block wrote:Already had the H2H commishes send out PM's to everyone in their league asking them to vote on the issue. If the majority is for it then the league will do away with the playoffs. ;-D

EDIT: On that note, can I get some updates from bokzg and Red on where the voting stands?


7 out of 7 votes received so far have been for no playoffs. It's already a majority, but we can wait for a few more votes to come in.
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Re: 2010-2011 Offseason Discussion

Postby RedHopeful » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:36 am

Rounders Block wrote:Already had the H2H commishes send out PM's to everyone in their league asking them to vote on the issue. If the majority is for it then the league will do away with the playoffs. ;-D

EDIT: On that note, can I get some updates from bokzg and Red on where the voting stands?

5 against playoffs, 1 don't care at all, 1 for playoffs
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