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Draft Discussion

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Re: Draft Discussion

Postby DVauthrin » Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:30 pm

To be honest, Howard wasn't on my radar. I don't like raw offensive players that are liabilities in crunch time. Durant and James were, though.

Yes, Kobe is the oldest player picked so far, but he's got at least 4-5 more dominant seasons in him. As a GM, you are looking day to day and year to year first, not 10 years down the road.

Now everyone knows Kobe is a great scorer, but what drew me to him was his all around game. He's a willing and very good passer that can lock down our opponent's best perimeter player. Plus, he is an outstanding crunch time player that knocks down his free throws.
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Re: Draft Discussion

Postby KalElen » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:30 pm

i'm gonna agree with svg about howard being underrated. he is the best defensive player in the league. he dominates 50% of the game of basketball. yes he is limited offensively, but even without any further development he's gonna average 20ppg or close to it for a career. he might not be the player you want having the ball in his hands in the crunch time, but he is the guy that's gonna make sure you have something to play for at the crunch time. i expect his offense to improve over the next few years and for him to become dominant force on both ends of the court
also i wouldn't agree that kobe has 4-5 more dominant years in him. i'd say 2 maybe 3 at best. don't forget he was drafted out of high-school and played countless playoff games. i'm not saying he is a terrible choice or anything like that, just that i would have taken few other guys before him
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Re: Draft Discussion

Postby RedHopeful » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:53 pm

For all those pro-Dwight Howard fans, 1) What makes you think he'll develop an offensive game after already being in the league for 6 years? and 2) Have you considered the pounding his body has taken thus far playing center in the league (that he'll be able to rely on his ultra-athleticism to not waiver nor start missing time to injury for at least 3-4 more years)?
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Re: Draft Discussion

Postby RedHopeful » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:00 pm

Just got done talking to a very emotional dvauthrin. With much regret, he's agreed to let go of his 2nd team - the Bucks - to RocketsDWM. :-D

Welcome RocketsDWM. :-)

Go ahead and create a roster in the appropriate thread and be ready to draft + stand by your decisions. ;-D
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Re: Draft Discussion

Postby DVauthrin » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:01 pm

KalElen wrote:i'm gonna agree with svg about howard being underrated. he is the best defensive player in the league. he dominates 50% of the game of basketball. yes he is limited offensively, but even without any further development he's gonna average 20ppg or close to it for a career. he might not be the player you want having the ball in his hands in the crunch time, but he is the guy that's gonna make sure you have something to play for at the crunch time. i expect his offense to improve over the next few years and for him to become dominant force on both ends of the court
also i wouldn't agree that kobe has 4-5 more dominant years in him. i'd say 2 maybe 3 at best. don't forget he was drafted out of high-school and played countless playoff games. i'm not saying he is a terrible choice or anything like that, just that i would have taken few other guys before him


First of all, Dwight has had years to improve his offensive skills and his free throw shooting and he hasn't done it.

Concerning Kobe, the guy keeps himself in tremendous shape. That's one of only areas I'd be willing to compare him to Jordan. I see him being able to play well into his late 30's if he so desires.
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Re: Draft Discussion

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:02 pm

RedHopeful wrote:For all those pro-Dwight Howard fans, 1) What makes you think he'll develop an offensive game after already being in the league for 6 years? and 2) Have you considered the pounding his body has taken thus far playing center in the league (that he'll be able to rely on his ultra-athleticism to not waiver nor start missing time to injury for at least 3-4 more years)?


I understand the case for his body taking a pounding, but come on...at age 28, he's not going to start losing athleticism.

Also, you guys are arguing that Howard doesn't have that many years left in a discussion of him vs. Kobe? :-?
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Re: Draft Discussion

Postby geodbear » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:04 pm

Red brings up the question of his development offensively and that's a valid one. In the last Reshuffle, I think there was an assumption of further development, but if you compare the Dwight of then to the Dwight of now, how much growth is there? I would have to expect some further growth offensively in order to justify taking him over Lebron. Another question is that in building a team around Howard, do you need to follow the example of Orlando w/ the 3 point shooters or can you have flexibility in the system/types of players you surround him.
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Re: Draft Discussion

Postby plonden » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:05 pm

KalElen wrote:i'm gonna agree with svg about howard being underrated. he is the best defensive player in the league. he dominates 50% of the game of basketball. yes he is limited offensively, but even without any further development he's gonna average 20ppg or close to it for a career. he might not be the player you want having the ball in his hands in the crunch time, but he is the guy that's gonna make sure you have something to play for at the crunch time. i expect his offense to improve over the next few years and for him to become dominant force on both ends of the court

Interesting argument, Kal. D12 is the polar opposite of a Canadian point guard who plays for a team in the Pacific Division [trying not to violate rules about mentioning undrafted players here but want to discuss]. Captain Canada is awesome offensively but a defensive liability. Just curious if you let his defensive liabilities slide due to his offensive prowess.

Kobe might be a bit early for my tastes but it could end up being one of the best teams when it is all said and done. For the Kobe team, it must be a win now at all costs type of team or I consider it a failure. The final team makeup needs to be players who can contribute right now. No projects.
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Re: Draft Discussion

Postby KalElen » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:13 pm

well we all know that old saying about big guys taking longer to develop. i believe that he was never faced with as much criticism regarding his offensive game as he was after magic's playoff exit this year and that will make him work extra hard on it. i have no special insight into the issue. all i have is my opinion on dwight being talented and being a hard worker

kobe can take good care of his body, but he'll have many more games under his belt then mj did at the age 33-34. he entered the league after high-school, thanx to having shaq around he had longer playoff runs early in his career and he won't have year and a half retirement to keep him fresh
Last edited by KalElen on Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Draft Discussion

Postby KalElen » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:21 pm

phil, howard has one huge advantage over one way players who excel on the offensive end - good defenders are scarce. in the top 30 players you'll have bunch of guys who can score, but there will not be many defensive studs. also there will probably be no other centers taken in the rest of the 1st round
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