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2012/13 season discussion

Moderators: RedHopeful, silentjim, Fenris-77, DVauthrin, dasein

Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby silentjim » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:44 am

dasein wrote:I don't think I'd be for this idea. Here's an example of why:

My current contract for Felton is looking pretty bad. Under this rule, I could simply drop him and wait for someone else to sign him up, which would happen because he still has value. This would then give me 8M in cap space back. I get of scott free for handing out a bad contract. I don't think this makes sense for our league.


Yeah, we'd have to institute something similar to real life waivers like they do in the NBA currently, which I don't think really works here. Way to complicated and we wouldn't really be able to establish correct priorities and such.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby So-Tex » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:40 am

Well, maybe then we should revisit the idea that a manager can't bid on a player he released earlier in the season? Or maybe we should put a restriction on any player dropped who had a 1M or more contract, that said player has to be picked up for a certain amount - say, no less than the equivalent of the waiver amount the other manager is paying. Or just don't allow that player to be eligible for pickup for the rest of the regular season.

I'm not really pushing for any of these ideas, mind you. It's just that I'm seeing waived contracts all over the place for players which are getting picked up at later times for a fraction of the cost. And that, too, doesn't make sense in real life. In real life, a player leaves his team to go looking for more money, not less, right? Even if waived, most players still command at least as much as they were receiving before (obviously, there are exceptions to this though).

Again, let's look at my Carl Landry example - I had him for a two year deal at 1M + .9M. I dropped him a few weeks back, when it really looked like he was going nowhere fast. Can anyone here really say he was worth holding on to at that point? Now all of a sudden, he's come on with a vengeance, and just this last week, Jim has picked him up for .25M + .25M. That's a big difference from 1M and .9M. So now, I'm stuck paying .75 and .45M for Landry - simply because he was a lost cause when I dropped him, and I didn't have clairvoyance enough to hold on to him.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not regretting the move I made, especially because at the time, he was worse than bad! And we can sit here and preach patience all day long with this type of league, I get that also. But I've made trade offers with what is available to me on my roster salary-wise, and have been turned down strictly for performance reasons - "that guy's just not good enough." (and understandably so - I'm not arguing that either).

So I can't really trade to fix my team. I'm left with rookies and the FA pool. And now, apparently, I have to wait things out on all my lower tier players, while sucking that entire time, before I get the chance to see if they'll perform well. I mean, It's bad enough I'm sitting on rookies and "prospects" as well as injured players and such. But now I can't make plays for guys I dropped a week too soon, simply because I didn't have clairvoyance enough to hang onto them until they did better. And all the while, I'm settling into 14th place with nowhere else to go.

I understand you're Felton argument, though, and it does make sense. But if that's the case, maybe we need to make a rule that if a player under a guaranteed contract gets dropped during the season, no other manager can pick him up for the remainder of the season. This will avoid the other side of that coin you just mentioned, where if you were to drop Felton at 8M, I couldn't go picking him up for .25. Next off-season, he would go into the pool, and let everyone bid what they think he's worth.

And I'm sorry Jim for seeming like I'm calling you out on this example - I'm really not - it just happened to go that way. Even though I'm being wordy here, this isn't really a rant. It's just something that doesn't make much common sense to me on ALL fronts - the fact that I'm paying MORE for Landry than you are and didn't even get stats out of him - the fact that I can't go back and pick up guys I dropped earlier, simply because my timing was bad, or someone's ankle got sprained three days later than I could wait for, or whatever.

I know luck is luck, good or bad - but again, it's all about feeling like I can get a fair, fighting chance to make my squad better. But right now, it looks like I'll have to suck for another year or two, OR MORE, before I even get a chance to move up into the middle of the pack! 8-o

And as laid back as I've become, changing my whole attitude towards this league, trying to relax and not make "mountains out of molehills" (compared to earlier in the off-season when I went off for really no good reason a couple of times), that fact, to me, is really discouraging.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby DVauthrin » Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:51 am

I understand your frustration So-Tex, but if a player is waived mid season, they usually go sign with another team for the minimum as they were bought out of their contract. That said, it is usually on a one year deal. It's not realistic to stop other owners from signing a player that was waived midseason. It would be like getting laid off in real life, and being told you can't search for a job for six months.

My advice is to shop Deron Williams and Marcin Gortat like crazy to try and acquire quality depth. There have to be owners interested in dealing for either player. It can also be a lengthy process to rebuild a team in a deep dynasty league, and it doesn't just happen overnight. Your team definitely has made strides in terms of overall talent.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby silentjim » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:41 pm

I think patience is the key. Sure I like getting Landry, but I also dropped Teague last year, which was obviously a mistake, and I'm fairly certain I got him because someone else dropped him. :-D

CJ Miles this season sucked the entire time, and then the minute I dropped him he starts playing well. What are you going to do? We all have mistakes that have been made and I think David has it right that it's going to take time, and it's going to be a process. I'm not patient, so I've been going with a win now mentality, but its comes at a price since I don't really have any young developing players with good contracts. Instead I've been moving them for players who fit my strategy. Good deals in the draft help too.

And it goes back and forth. I'm glad I got Scola, but Brandon Knight is looking better than I thought he would. Beasly on the other hand stinks and is constantly hurt.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby dasein » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:21 pm

...and everytime I see a Marshon Brookes box score :-[ :-/

I should have kept him for 0.5M, 0.5M.

We'll all make bad decisions. The trick is to make more good than bad i guess.
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Re: Drew Gooden

Postby nsink » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:08 pm

i thought i had 24 hrs from winning the auction to make it right? is that incorrect, whats the 24 hr rule about than - roster space but not cap space?
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Re: Drew Gooden

Postby nsink » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:16 pm

I sent u some messages,

I thought the new slash whatever rule everyone has been confused about meant u had 24 hrs from winning an action to get ur team into compliance. I'm sorry for the confusion, but i think it would be unfair to keep me from bidding again over a confusing rule that everyone has had trouble with. It just seemed more prudent not to drop until i absolutely had to, if i knew that date was before bidding i wld have.

Please advise and commistee, reconsider my bidding ban, goodens a prize and wld not be in the interest of competative balance to block out an interested party. I wld be dropping TOney Douglas and have plenty of money for my latest bid.
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Re: Drew Gooden

Postby nsink » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:16 pm

I sent u some messages,

I thought the new slash whatever rule everyone has been confused about meant u had 24 hrs from winning an action to get ur team into compliance. I'm sorry for the confusion, but i think it would be unfair to keep me from bidding again over a confusing rule that everyone has had trouble with. It just seemed more prudent not to drop until i absolutely had to, if i knew that date was before bidding i wld have.

Please advise and commistee, reconsider my bidding ban, goodens a prize and wld not be in the interest of competative balance to block out an interested party. I wld be dropping TOney Douglas and have plenty of money for my latest bid.
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Re: Drew Gooden

Postby DVauthrin » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:01 pm

I got your messages and I understand your points. That said you can't bid money you don't have at the time. Also, it changes the rest of the auction, as I we would have reverted back to jim's first bid, and my bid would have been 1M over 2 years.

Furthermore, you aren't the first person this year(or new person) to bid over their cap. 4ndrew did it with Byron Mullens, and he had to sit out the remainder of the auction. It would be unfair and inconsistent of me to bend the rule here when others have dealt with the consequences of bidding over the cap. It's also covered in the rules, which are found in the documents link in the thread.

All I can say is learn from it, so it doesn't happen in the future. Sucks that it happened on a very useful player in Gooden, but the quality of the player is irrelevant here.
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Re: Drew Gooden

Postby silentjim » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:13 pm

DVauthrin wrote:I got your messages and I understand your points. That said you can't bid money you don't have at the time. Also, it changes the rest of the auction, as I we would have reverted back to jim's first bid, and my bid would have been 1M over 2 years.

Furthermore, you aren't the first person this year(or new person) to bid over their cap. 4ndrew did it with Byron Mullens, and he had to sit out the remainder of the auction. It would be unfair and inconsistent of me to bend the rule here when others have dealt with the consequences of bidding over the cap. It's also covered in the rules, which are found in the documents link in the thread.

All I can say is learn from it, so it doesn't happen in the future. Sucks that it happened on a very useful player in Gooden, but the quality of the player is irrelevant here.


Agreed here. The rule has always been you can never go over the cap and the amendment to that rule from earlier is that you can clear a roster spot after the fact, but not the cap space.
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