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2012/13 season discussion

Moderators: RedHopeful, silentjim, Fenris-77, DVauthrin, dasein

Re: Drew Gooden

Postby nsink » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:11 pm

Id like to ask if this can be taken up with the competition committee

i dont understand how its acceptable to be out fo compliance with rosters for 1 thing but not the other?

at no point wld i have been over the cap because toney and gooden wld never have been on my roster on the same day, i never wld have exceeded 75 million.

Id like to get a ruling soon, so i can drop TOney D (only if ruled im allowed to keep bidding on gooden, but ill drop toney D before continuing bidding).

i think its bunk to change the rules make it seem like its ok to get 24 hrs to get into compliance for some people/reasons, but not this one. And if that is how it is, id just like the chance to play that way and not be refused from being allowed to bid on Gooden.
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Re: Drew Gooden

Postby nsink » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:12 pm

silentjim wrote:
DVauthrin wrote:I got your messages and I understand your points. That said you can't bid money you don't have at the time. Also, it changes the rest of the auction, as I we would have reverted back to jim's first bid, and my bid would have been 1M over 2 years.

Furthermore, you aren't the first person this year(or new person) to bid over their cap. 4ndrew did it with Byron Mullens, and he had to sit out the remainder of the auction. It would be unfair and inconsistent of me to bend the rule here when others have dealt with the consequences of bidding over the cap. It's also covered in the rules, which are found in the documents link in the thread.

All I can say is learn from it, so it doesn't happen in the future. Sucks that it happened on a very useful player in Gooden, but the quality of the player is irrelevant here.


Agreed here. The rule has always been you can never go over the cap and the amendment to that rule from earlier is that you can clear a roster spot after the fact, but not the cap space.



Why are you allowed to get 24 hrs to be in compliance with 1 rule but not the other?
at no point wld i have been over 75 million because gooden and toney wld never have been on my roster on the same day.
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Re: Drew Gooden

Postby dasein » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:46 pm

nsink wrote: Why are you allowed to get 24 hrs to be in compliance with 1 rule but not the other?
at no point wld i have been over 75 million because gooden and toney wld never have been on my roster on the same day.


The quick answer is that this is a Salary Cap League. The salary cap is the preeminent rule and all others, including roster restrictions, take a back seat to it.

The slightly longer answer is that when you make an auction bid, the value of that bid becomes a cap hold. Therefore, you can only bid what you have available under the cap at the time you make the bid. Bidding more than this is offering money that you don't have, and this is a major no-no. There are no credit cards in the SCL. :-)

I know its frustrating when you are keyed in on a player. I did the exact same thing earlier this year, and I just had to wear it too. You learn from it and move on.
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Re: Drew Gooden

Postby DVauthrin » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:11 am

nsink wrote:Id like to ask if this can be taken up with the competition committee

i dont understand how its acceptable to be out fo compliance with rosters for 1 thing but not the other?

at no point wld i have been over the cap because toney and gooden wld never have been on my roster on the same day, i never wld have exceeded 75 million.

Id like to get a ruling soon, so i can drop TOney D (only if ruled im allowed to keep bidding on gooden, but ill drop toney D before continuing bidding).

i think its bunk to change the rules make it seem like its ok to get 24 hrs to get into compliance for some people/reasons, but not this one. And if that is how it is, id just like the chance to play that way and not be refused from being allowed to bid on Gooden.


I'm sorry you are upset/think the ruling is bunk, but its not changing. Your bids put you over the cap, and you can't bid on Gooden. Others have been punished the same way for the same infraction earlier this season.

The reason you can go over your roster but not over the cap is this is a salary cap league. It's no different than trying to charge 20 dollars on a debit card when you don't have 20 dollars in your bank account. Your card would be denied. If we allowed people to free up the money after winning players, bidding would never end, in any auction. You could just bid with monopoly money, win the player, and then drop as many players as needed to pay the player's salary.

Also, as administrators we would have to then double check and make sure they went through with the proper drop, and that's a major hassle.

However, you can buy as much as you want if you have the money, and then get to the appropriate number of items afterwards. Plus, you can never go over 16 players in yahoo because yahoo's system won't let you do it.

The 24 hr rule was put in place because people were going multiple days before picking up players they won in auction. It's like a form of churning(or blocking the waiver wire players).
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby DVauthrin » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:15 am

Nsink. I'm sorry you are upset/think the ruling is bunk, but its not changing. Your bids put you over the cap, and you can't bid on Gooden. Others have been punished the same way for the same infraction earlier this season. Dasein, and 4ndrew can speak to this, for example.

The reason you can go over your roster but not over the cap is this is a salary cap league. It's no different than trying to charge 20 dollars on a debit card when you don't have 20 dollars in your bank account. Your card would be denied. If we allowed people to free up the money after winning players, bidding would never end, in any auction. You could just bid with monopoly money, win the player, and then drop as many players as needed to pay the player's salary. We might as well not have a salary cap in that case.

Also, as administrators we would have to then double check and make sure they went through with the proper drop, and that's a major hassle.


The 24 hr rule was put in place because people were going multiple days before picking up players they won in auction. It's like a form of churning(or blocking the waiver wire players).
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby nsink » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:51 am

that argument doesnt make sense to me.
im not spending money i dont have because i dont spend money until i win the auction and add him to my team, at which pt id have money because Toney wld be dropped.

It seems absurd some people can bid without having to make a decision first (keeping 16, until winning), but i have to make my decision first(getting under) then bid not knowing if id win.

Id never be over the hard cap at any pt because id never be paying Toney full salary and gooden salary at the same time.
Last edited by nsink on Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby nsink » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:56 am

Ok, i read through your replies.

im ok with the ruling.

i just thought u had 24 hrs to get in compliance thourgh the messages that had been sent after the season had started, seemed like rules had changed so i went by that not the rule book. I wldnt make sense for me to make the financial decision to eat toney's contract, unless i knew i was winning gooden, which seemed to me to be the same premise as not having to make a decision to drop a player until after knowing u had won a player.

It is really unfortunate, because gooden wld have put my team over the top and now some other team is going to get him for dirt cheap because of a rules misunderstander, not because of competitive bidding.

i hope u can see why i was confused though, because at No point wld my team have been over 75 Million. Gooden and Toney full Salary wld never had been active on the same day. therefore, id never exceed 75 million at any 1 pt in time.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby nsink » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:59 am

DVauthrin wrote:. It's no different than trying to charge 20 dollars on a debit card when you don't have 20 dollars in your bank account. Your card would be denied. [/b]


but an auction is not the same thing as buying something, u dont pay anything until the end. thats the same as the roster moves, u dont free up space until u know u got a new player
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby dasein » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:13 am

nsink wrote: i hope u can see why i was confused though, because at No point wld my team have been over 75 Million. Gooden and Toney full Salary wld never had been active on the same day. therefore, id never exceed 75 million at any 1 pt in time.


I'm sorry you were confused and I get what you're trying to say, but the above is just plain wrong.

Say you currently have 72M in salary. Then say you make an auction bid of 3.1M. Your cap situation looks like this the moment you make the bid:

Salary: 72
Cap Hold: 3.1
Total: 75.1

In this case you have gone over the cap. Going over the cap is never, ever allowed. So you've broken the golden rule before you even know whether you would have won the player. Arguments about whether players would have been active on the same day are actually irrelevant because the rule is broken the moment you make the illegal bid.

I'm not trying to pick on anyone here. I just want us to all be clear.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby DVauthrin » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:54 am

nsink wrote:
DVauthrin wrote:. It's no different than trying to charge 20 dollars on a debit card when you don't have 20 dollars in your bank account. Your card would be denied. [/b]


but an auction is not the same thing as buying something, u dont pay anything until the end. thats the same as the roster moves, u dont free up space until u know u got a new player


First of all, I apologize for the confusion and I understand why you were confused. That said, if you are confused you can always PM me or one of the other mods in the forum and we will answer any questions. I don't want any of my owners to be confused about anything. Second, like dasein said, when you hold the leading bid for a player, it counts towards your cap until your offer gets beat. The reason I used the debit card analogy is you have to have the money in bank to support any bid you make.
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