2012/13 season discussion

[cnote23]

sorry about that guys I put my ilysova bid back up.

[dasein]

No one else is online so I'm going to make a call here: Cnote has until noon tomorrow to announce that he's waiving players to make his Wade bid legal. If he doesn't then his Ilyasova bid stands and Wade bid does not, with So Tex's previous bid on Wade will stand as high bid and with a new auction clock will start at noon for both Wade and Ilyasova. People can feel free to bid on either player in the interim, but with the understanding that the auction clock will reset at noon tomorrow regardless. The legality of all bids will be readdressed just prior to noon based on Cnote's decisions and any other bids on the two players in question.

I don't like this ruling. It basically says you can go over the cap now and make it up with a drop latter, after we have gone to great pains to make clear that this is something you cannot do. We currently have no mechanic to withdraw bids, although I think the violation committee has allowed it before for special reasons. Whether we should have a withdrawl mechanism is another discussion. I haven't looked at the sequence of cnote's bidding but if he had a leading bid on Illysova and then made a bid on Wade that took him over the cap, the Wade bid would be void and he would be baned from taking any further part in that auction- that's how the rule was inforced last year and there's been no discussion about changing it. Note that the last part is meant to be a dissincentive against going over the cap.

And personally, I can't say I have much sympathy for trying to drop a bid when a better option comes along. That just shows a lack of any sort of plan.

However, if we were to allow bid withdrawls, I'd suggest that the penalty is forfeiting the right to bid again in that auction. And it could only be done if you are the current leader obviously.

[Fenris-77]

Calm down son. Who said anything about allowing bid withdrawals? I certainly didn't. I have a problem with rigorous bid enforcement when the player is easily within striking distance via waives or whatnot, that's all. A waived player, or whatever, needs to be made explicit at the time of bids though, a matter which we didn't remind anyone of, or state explicitly in the rules. I don't even really think Cnote had that planned and just forgot to mention it, but it was close enough I had no problem seeing what he wanted to do.

The real problem here is that the cap-hold bid system is a piece of shit in many ways and causes as many problems as it solves. Our system has no priority mechanic and as you mention, no withdrawal mechanic, so it's left mostly to random chance to decide if a GM who currently has space under the cap can actually bid on a free agent he wants to own. Think about that for a second and you'll realize how bloody stupid it is. Obviously we have to work with the rules we have, but in a case like this where the difference could easily have been a minor calculator mistake, and when the team in question could easily make the required space, I'm ok taking a softer approach or resolving the matter. If it had been an egregious violation of the bid cap hold rules I would have no problem resolving it in the usual manner (even though I'm not really happy with the way that rule works in the first place).

The player is actually going over the cap either, since we're talking about a cap hold. The cap hold is provisional based on the bid being the current leader, and any bid addendums about dropping players to make room for the bid are identically provisional. At no point did I say people should be allowed to drop guys after the fact as a general rule of thumb.

[DVauthrin]

Simple ruling:

At no time can you go over the cap, and at no time can you rescind a bid to a player. Therefore cnote's bid on Ersan stands, and because his Wade bid put him over the cap, he is prohibited from bidding on Wade the remainder of free agency.

I should know, I'm the reason the rule was in place. Last year, I had a bid on a separate player and right as I bid on amir johnson, i took the lead for the other player, putting me over the cap. From that point forward the rule was established that if a bid puts you over the cap, you were eliminated from the remainder of the auction.

Until we come up with a better fix, that's the rule, and thus the ruling. Not saying I like it much either.

[silentjim]

Simple ruling:

At no time can you go over the cap, and at no time can you rescind a bid to a player. Therefore cnote's bid on Ersan stands, and because his Wade bid put him over the cap, he is prohibited from bidding on Wade the remainder of free agency.

I should know, I'm the reason the rule was in place. Last year, I had a bid on a separate player and right as I bid on amir johnson, i took the lead for the other player, putting me over the cap. From that point forward the rule was established that if a bid puts you over the cap, you were eliminated from the remainder of the auction.

Until we come up with a better fix, that's the rule, and thus the ruling. Not saying I like it much either.

[cnote23]

QUICK question the derozan bid the last one by snake that is past the 12 hour limit right?

[DVauthrin]

QUICK question the derozan bid the last one by snake that is past the 12 hour limit right?

Correct, you won DeRozan.

[snakehuynh]

QUICK question the derozan bid the last one by snake that is past the 12 hour limit right?

Correct, you won DeRozan.

The time stamp on these are in "Central Time", oh well.

[DVauthrin]

QUICK question the derozan bid the last one by snake that is past the 12 hour limit right?

Correct, you won DeRozan.

The time stamp on these are in "Central Time", oh well.

I have the time stamps from the cafe for cnote's bid and yours. His was 10:28 PM(11:28 PM central) last night. Yours was 10:49 AM(11:49 AM central) this morning. That's 21 minutes after the 12 hours expired. Both bids use the same time zone for the time stamp.

Re: DeMar DeRozen
by cnote23 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:28 pm

7mil(3.5+3.5

Re: DeMar DeRozen
by snakehuynh » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:49 am

7.5mil(3.75+3.75)

[nsink]

Simple ruling:

At no time can you go over the cap, and at no time can you rescind a bid to a player. Therefore cnote's bid on Ersan stands, and because his Wade bid put him over the cap, he is prohibited from bidding on Wade the remainder of free agency.

I should know, I'm the reason the rule was in place. Last year, I had a bid on a separate player and right as I bid on amir johnson, i took the lead for the other player, putting me over the cap. From that point forward the rule was established that if a bid puts you over the cap, you were eliminated from the remainder of the auction.

Until we come up with a better fix, that's the rule, and thus the ruling. Not saying I like it much either.

Similar but slightly different question. How does this wok for roster spaces? Can I go over 16 player limit as long as I drop someone later, or do I need the open slot.