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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby silentjim » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:04 pm

So, in my example I bid 7.18 million on Jordan (my full available bid under the softcap).

Theoretically I can bid 15 million (up to the hard cap) on Morrow then? Since he only originally counted against my soft cap?
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby scully19 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:05 pm

I see what you are saying now, and I agree, it would be extremely hard to sign middle of the road talent as a free agent from a team up against the cap. They probably won't care so much to spend a little bit more than you because this is not real money.

Ex: I offer Morrow the full MLE of 6.6(6+6.6+7.2). You already signed jordan to 7.18 and have no money left to spend anyways, so offer him 7m for 1 year. or 8m for 1 year. It doesn't really matter to you because you weren't signing anyone else, so might as well easily overpay someone for one year so that you keep him and have a better team.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby scully19 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:08 pm

There should at least be some sort of reprocution, like for instance you have to sign him for multiple years (at least 2 years) so that overpaying him does hurt you when next year rolls around. We are matching real life rules but in this case they don't exist for us because it is not real money. Real teams play with real money and won't overpay for that reason, but what do we care if we are at 80m. In fact you might want to get as close as you can because in that case you likely have a good team.

EDIT: Or instead of multiple years, match the amount of years offered, so if the current winning big is 6m, you don't have to raise and add an extra year.
Last edited by scully19 on Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby silentjim » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:10 pm

Exactly, most of it having to do with player like Morrow only having a .35 cap hold, but being worth more than 350,000 for example. Shouldn't pay him an insane amount, but there's no penalty for doing so in a fake league. I'd just waive him and potentially make myself that much better.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby DVauthrin » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:12 pm

silentjim wrote:
This is what is written up and I assumed, but the issue becomes priority. This is where the loophole existed in real life as well. And since we don't talk to players/ don't have any real control over the expiration of time, how do we figure out the combination of Free Agents and players with Birds Rights, which would allow most teams to over the soft cap?


The only amendments I could see for future seasons would be bird rights salary increases are higher than 15% per season, and perhaps you change the amount of time those players stay on the clock to give an inherent advantage to the team holding those rights. Also, like scully said, bird right players could have to be signed at a certain contract length if you aren't the team holding those rights.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby KalElen » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:14 pm

here's another example. you are 10M under the cap. you can offer 9M to jordan. at that point you are holding high bid and those 9M basically count against your cap as long as you hold high bid. then you can offer up to cap hold + 15M to your bird rights player putting you at the hard cap (providing you have your roster filled by that move, otherwise you'd have to leave some cap space under hard cap in order to be able to round out your roster with min bids). if your 9M offer gets outbid at this point you can no longer increase to 9.5 or 10M because as long as your bid on your bird fa is high bid you have 15M+ committed to him putting you around 70M. this might seem odd, but we have no better way of doing this. everyone would like to be able to spend their cap first and then use their bird rights, but we can't prevent people from bidding on other people's bird fas in order to allow that. it would be too restrictive, so we roll with what we have
also there is this:
-when offering contracts to free agents:
1) offers within 50% and 100% of the maximum have to be between 2 and 4 years long
2) offers within 25% and 49% of the maximum have to be between 1 and 3 years long
3) offers smaller then 25% of the maximum can go between 1 and 2 years

by bidding 8M just to outbid mle, you lose all cap space in case of your 7.18 bid getting outbid
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby scully19 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:18 pm

No I'm saying if you ARE the team holding the rights you have to pay out a certain contract length, this way you can't just keep mazing out who you want on your team because you would hold all their bird rights and keep signing ludicrous 1 year contracts.

If I'm trying to sign Morrow for max MLE of 6.6(6+6.6+7.2), when beating my offer he should have to beat it at 3 years as well, or a minimum of 2 years. If I'm bidding 6m for 1 year for Morrow, then you should be able to just beat that at 6.5 for 1 year and be done with it though.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby DVauthrin » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:20 pm

scully19 wrote:No I'm saying if you ARE the team holding the rights you have to pay out a certain contract length, this way you can't just keep mazing out who you want on your team because you would hold all their bird rights and keep signing ludicrous 1 year contracts.

If I'm trying to sign Morrow for max MLE of 6.6(6+6.6+7.2), when beating my offer he should have to beat it at 3 years as well, or a minimum of 2 years. If I'm bidding 6m for 1 year for Morrow, then you should be able to just beat that at 6.5 for 1 year and be done with it though.


Oh, my mistake. That makes sense.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby scully19 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:23 pm

New example then, look at hi chi.

He holds the rights of 7 guys, and is only barely under the cap enough to use it for more then the MLE. He could go out and sign whoever for the MLE, and then just massively overpay everyone on his team for 1 year. There is no problem with this since he is basically paying out everyone on his team, but it makes it extremely difficult to actually sign anyone not on the MLE, and people using cap space to try to sign free agents are going to have an extremely hard time doing so.

EDIT: Look at his guys too, basically no one would be able to sign Ariza or Rip or Mike Miller, because he would have too much money available to him, and nothing to do with it because he wouldn't be able to spend it otherwise. They would get overpaid by him for 1 year contracts and there is no way you can get him from him, even if you try to way overpay.
Last edited by scully19 on Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby KalElen » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:26 pm

scully19 wrote:If I'm trying to sign Morrow for max MLE of 6.6(6+6.6+7.2), when beating my offer he should have to beat it at 3 years as well, or a minimum of 2 years. If I'm bidding 6m for 1 year for Morrow, then you should be able to just beat that at 6.5 for 1 year and be done with it though.

i think this is a good idea. i'd prefer 2 years to 3. anybody else got an opinion?
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