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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby DVauthrin » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:23 pm

Markos wrote:$7m x 2 > $7.5m (despite average annual salary being less)
and
$6m > $3.5 x 2 (despite total salary being less)

In my league each extra year adds 20% value to the average. So

3 x $10
2 x $12
1 x $14.4

are all equal

IMO this is the best way to go about it. It far better mimics the player's mindset than simply going with either total money offered, or with the annual average salary. It incorporates both. You could probably bump up the percentage to 25% or 30% even


If we go with this idea, I vote for 30% increases of value to the average.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby scully19 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:00 pm

I'm with DV's idea over mine, just make 25%-50% be a min of 2 years. Then have 30% whatchamacallit.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby scully19 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:18 pm

Everyone must have read this, the activity in here over the past 2 days has had basically everyone show up. Why does everyone not post something along the lines of agreeing, disagreeing, or being moot to the point so that we can get this moving on. Posting nothing and disappearing only wastes everyone's time as we wait for you to respond to something you probably have no intention of responding too.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby RocketsDWM » Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:45 pm

I'm fine with whatever is decided - honestly, all of this is new to me so I'm not going to be much of a help in dissecting the different ways this could be approached. I think Kal needs to consider the points that have been made and then render a decision on his own. Putting it to a vote just doesnt seem worth it. Can change the decision next off-season. I think at this juncture, starting the bid process is imperative.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby dasein » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:00 pm

scully19 wrote:Everyone must have read this, the activity in here over the past 2 days has had basically everyone show up. Why does everyone not post something along the lines of agreeing, disagreeing, or being moot to the point so that we can get this moving on. Posting nothing and disappearing only wastes everyone's time as we wait for you to respond to something you probably have no intention of responding too.


hey scully, chill man B-)

So by reading this and not posting, I'm wasting everyones time? :-S
Actually, I'm only wasting my own because I don't know what the hell you guys are on about most of the time. This thread presumes a healthy level of understanding of the ins and outs of the FA process which I simply don't have. And to be honest, the posts usually aren't written clearly enough to be able to glean much unambiguous information.

My intention was to let you experienced guys sort this out, and then learn by doing. If there is something you want a vote on, then make this explicit and clearly write up the options with the arguments for and against. But to imply that we are somehow not fulfilling our responsibilities by not weighing in on this is a bit much. ;-)
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby barrec » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:09 pm

scully19 wrote:Everyone must have read this, the activity in here over the past 2 days has had basically everyone show up. Why does everyone not post something along the lines of agreeing, disagreeing, or being moot to the point so that we can get this moving on. Posting nothing and disappearing only wastes everyone's time as we wait for you to respond to something you probably have no intention of responding too.


Excuse me for me reading and digesting everything. This being my first year in the league, I don't have a solid understand of how the league operated last year nor how exactly these proposed changes will change it. I really enjoying reading the discussion of league vets who have experience and would trust a decision they made.

If you want to put it to a vote you don't have to berate those for not responding to the discussion yet.

As it stands I am, as you say, moot to the changes and would be fine with what the league decides.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby KalElen » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:12 pm

ok guys, let's all play nice
to be honest i'm trying to avoid voting because it will likely take 3-4 days to get everyone's votes after all the discussion is over. this is very tricky subject so we need to get it absolutely right from the start or otherwise we could ruin the league with unbalanced bidding rules. that's why i'm leaving little extra time for discussion. mostly i'd like to see if anyone has a problem with proposed solutions (by dv and markos). if nobody objects to them after 3-4 days of discussion i'm gonna assume that they would pass the vote. i myself don't have the time to devote to this problem at this moment. i have been and will continue to be extra busy over the rest of the month (college) so i'm counting on the rest of you guys to do most legwork (or should i say brainwork) on this one. i check in several times a day, but i just don't have the time to think up and leave long posts with extensive explanations. if there are no new ideas/objections you can expect final bidding rules being posted tomorrow and auction starting on monday 0:01am est. in the mean time those of you who do understand proposed amendments could try to explain them further to the guys trying to catch up, maybe through an example. i'll need to post sufficient explanation before we can start auction anyway so having somebody cover that will help speed things along a bit
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby scully19 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:27 pm

Always hard to represent tone over the internet. I wasn't berating anyone, it is just something I have never understood, that if the commish asks something of the whole group to not say anything. It's cool to have a whole bunch of I'm new, or whatever you guys decide, but saying anything at all makes the process easier. I apologize if I came across too strong, that wasn't my attention, I was more curious about why no one says anything on group things. My mentality on group things is that I want to get everything done as soon as I can and not hold anything up even a little bit, so I would do whatever to avoid that.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby DVauthrin » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:23 am

Here's an example of how the rule changes proposed by markos and myself would come into play:

If you take away his MLE, hi chi has 62.46M in cap committed. That leaves him with 17.54M to get to the hard cap, if he doesn't renounce the cap holds on his free agents. So if he uses the MLE, he has 11.54M left counting the cap holds. Under our current system, he could pay ariza up to 9.99M for one year, which brings his committed salary to 69.7 without the MLE. Now let's say he resigns Miller at about 5M for one year, and darko at 2 mil for a year. he's at 75.35M without the MLE. Then he renounces the rest of his free agents, cutting 2.22M from his cap. He's at 73.13M and even using the full MLE keeps him under the hard cap. He then has three bird rights free agents he can go through the process with again after next season.

Let's say Ariza gets a full 3 year MLE offer from another team(6+6.6+7.2). Under Markos and my proposed changes, hi chi would have to offer ariza an average salary of 8.58M over two years to just match the three year MLE offer. Therefore, it would take close to 9 mil a season for him to retain Ariza in such a scenario. He also couldn't beat the offer by offering a one year deal as contracts between 25%-49% of the max would have to be at least 2 year deals.

In conclusion, he would have to decide if he wants Ariza at that price for at least two seasons or get him at an average salary of 6.9M for three years. Therefore, he can't keep giving him bloated one year deals without facing any cap repercussions.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby hi chi » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:44 am

That sounds fair to me. But to be honest I am a bit of simpleton and might need help doing all the math with the ALL the new rules and %s and years. I am worried about making a wrong big and messing up the process. I think making rules to keep things fair is a good thing, but as we get more complicated we are going to have more problems (always the case in leagues). And to be honest this sounds like it is going to get complicated. I am cool with the 20-30% increase in yearly salary, although it seems like a bird right punishment and I am not sure if it is better under this proposed rule not to have bird rights at all...what is the advantage to having bird rights? I am ok with forcing guys to offer at least one year less than an opposing offer (this seems the most reasonable). I am still not sure I like having to have 200% of my guys salary count against my cap...that will suck when I have a 20M guy come up and I have to have 40M against my cap.

So I guess I am 100% ok with changing the years. I am kind of ok with changing the %s each year (but I do think it seems like a bit of a punishment to have a bird right with this change). I am not so ok with the increase of the cap hold (especially if it is to take place this year).
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