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2012/13 season discussion

Moderators: RedHopeful, silentjim, Fenris-77, DVauthrin, dasein

Re: Hi Chi- Trevor Ariza

Postby scully19 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:26 pm

That bid isn't legal though i get what you are doing. If you did that before he bid his max it would work, but now you must beat his bid by the minimum 0.25.
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Re: Hi Chi- Trevor Ariza

Postby hi chi » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:31 pm

In the example provided by Kal in the discussion he said that was perrmissible. I will recheck it though. ;-D

@hi chi 250k is required increase, but when gm is coming against his cap (soft cap or mle) he can make one last max offer even if it doesn't regularly outbid current high offer as long as his last offers at least matches current high bid (or outbids it by less then required 100k/250k). if he outbids you by any amount or matches your offer, and you are able to outbid him you have to outbid him in order to get that player, but you are allowed to outbid such "max" offer by just 10k in stead of 100k/250k
so he outbids your 6.4M with his max offer of 6.6 (6+6.6+7.2). you are now allowed to outbid him by offering 6.61 average salary
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Re: Hi Chi- Trevor Ariza

Postby KalElen » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:33 pm

scully19 wrote:That bid isn't legal though i get what you are doing. If you did that before he bid his max it would work, but now you must beat his bid by the minimum 0.25.

it's legal. we agreed to this rule last year after a long and tiresome discussion
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby barrec » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:13 pm

Not to digress, but was I the only one who couldn't log in at all until now? Every time I opened up FBC it gave me an SQL error on all browsers.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby jphanned » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:13 pm

barrec wrote:Not to digress, but was I the only one who couldn't log in at all until now? Every time I opened up FBC it gave me an SQL error on all browsers.


Yeah the Cafe has been down for the past 5-6 hours.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby barrec » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:19 pm

Rounders Block wrote:
barrec wrote:Not to digress, but was I the only one who couldn't log in at all until now? Every time I opened up FBC it gave me an SQL error on all browsers.


Yeah the Cafe has been down for the past 5-6 hours.


Though so ;o). Glad it's back!
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby dasein » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:20 pm

Fenris-77 wrote:Next season I think we need to seriously consider changing the auction mechanic. A lot of offline auction leagues bid on players in batches, say 5 to 8 guys, with each batch having a firm 24 or 48 hour bidding period. At the beginnning of free agency we'd compile a list of all the guys up a certain rank, and then the batches are written up by slotting those guys in alternating from the first batch to the last, which spreads top end guys as evenly as possible over the batches. That list is published in full before the auction starts, which allows guys to plan their spending and plan when to be on to bid on the guys they want. Often the bidding is done silently, but that adds a level of complication that we may or may not want to bother with. Even with open bids I think it would be less messy than what we're doing now.

I was thinking the same thing; place FAs on the block based on expected value according to some independent source like BBM. The best guys get payed first- just like real life.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby dasein » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:25 pm

dasein wrote:
So-Tex wrote:Not just that - I'm still worried about how I'm going to fill my roster with minimum contract guys, especially if I nominate them at the minimum and they get sniped from me because I can't sign them to higher contracts (I'm over the soft cap).

This rebuilding year is going to give me a headache... :*)


One thing that I'm starting to suspect is that the system may result in most players being undervalued. If you plug our settings into BBM, then a Durant or LeBron is worth about $20, which is where we have them and this is fine. It also seems that many of the contracts from the initial draft are about right too. But once the initial draft is done, and new additions come through free agency, the contracts don't seem like they reflect players values as well. So we have guys worth $10 going for $5, and guys worth $5 going for $1.

I think this is because the vast majority of new contracts are going to come from the MLE; most teams don't have enough cap space to go higher, even if they wanted to. Those that do have some cap space will likely use most of it to obtain a stud, or are competing for B-class players with managers who only have the MLE available, and therefore have no need to pay true value. Combine these factors and I predict a disproportionately low number of FA contracts greater than MLE. In terms of scale, there are 90-odd players that warrant a higher salary than $6. How many contracts greater than 6M will be handed out during this FA period? Any? I'm not sure how this is going to play out over time, or if there will be a "market correction" at some stage. Interested to hear the thoughts of you guys though. :-)

bump...This post was completely ignored by everybody, but I see it as a potentially major problem for this league. Nobody else has an opinion?
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Re: Hi Chi- Trevor Ariza

Postby coffeeman » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:33 pm

Seriously. I am shut out of the bidding by this. Then someone explain to me why the mLE isn't severely limited by this little game
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby So-Tex » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:41 pm

@dasein: You posted this while I was typing out my "term paper" below. But yeah, I see the issues there as well. Maybe some tweaking to the process will help that?

@Kal: I understand the rules and all - and now that I've had a little bit more time to think about it (plus a decent amount of sleep), I realized I was a bit on the "ranting" side with all that. And even though I still don't necessarily agree with that particular nuance of this league (I do get the fact that you have to think out your bids and decided what you want to budget, but I also think the process needs some tweaking), it's not going to change my perception of the league overall. Bottom line is I'm still in this league for the long haul, and quite honestly, it'd have to be something waaaaaay more serious than this for me to even consider bailing. And most certainly, any ideas I can think up that may make this a better league, I'll bring to the table.

And using that as a nice little segue...

Fenris-77 wrote:Next season I think we need to seriously consider changing the auction mechanic. A lot of offline auction leagues bid on players in batches, say 5 to 8 guys, with each batch having a firm 24 or 48 hour bidding period. At the beginnning of free agency we'd compile a list of all the guys up a certain rank, and then the batches are written up by slotting those guys in alternating from the first batch to the last, which spreads top end guys as evenly as possible over the batches. That list is published in full before the auction starts, which allows guys to plan their spending and plan when to be on to bid on the guys they want. Often the bidding is done silently, but that adds a level of complication that we may or may not want to bother with. Even with open bids I think it would be less messy than what we're doing now.

Now THIS makes sense to me. I was actually expecting to see guys "sniping" other players at the last second, similar to what happens eBay. I know the auction dynamic isn't necessarily the same as eBay, but I guess I had the wrong pre-conception.

But I do agree with Fenris here, that next season we should try to re-vamp the auction process for free agency. I don't think it would be that much more time intensive to offer players in groups, or "batches", where a designated start and stop time is set. The time stamps on each post would keep people honest, and any types of glitches or "last second" malfunctions could be taken into account and reviewed by either a moderator or a league vote. Of course, common sense would prevail - it's one thing if two managers were going back and forth actively bidding on a player, and then suddenly one guy gets dropped by his conncection or something and misses his last bid by a few seconds, but something else entirely if one manager has a bid on a player for the longest time with no other bids, then another decides to try and come in at the last second, barely misses the deadline, and cries "foul" (in that case, he's shit out of luck, in my opinion). It still isn't perfect, but I think something along these lines would work better. Again, it's not the idea that I only have the mle to work with - it's more the idea that I think of myself as savvy enough with my budget (just as all of you probably feel about yourselves as well) that I could get at least 2 good players with my mle. But because I have to wait on the first player I've bidded on, I'll be missing out on the second, or possibly others that haven't even been nominated yet. At least knowing ahead of time who is coming up for auction, would allow me to plan out my bidding strategy.

Something else that this has me looking into - auction script/software. I just downloaded a free auction scirpt, which is supposed to allow for a website to host it's own auctions. The question I asked myself is "Why couldn't something like that be incorporated here?" The auction would be set up online, with the designated time frame. Mangers would log in and make their bids, similar to eBay. Whoever moderates the auction can check in from time to time to make sure no bids are invalid. And even if a manager wins an auction with an invalid bid, the worst case would be to simply redo the auction (it's already happened here a couple times). Again, common sense and discretion would be in order if it ever came to that. But all in all, it might work better for us.

As I said before, I just downloaded a script which supposedly has all the basic functions for an online auction. I'm going to play with it a bit, and see if I can get it to work for me the way I described above. I have web hosting with Yahoo!, so I have a place to try it out and see if it will work (and maybe even host it in the future). If it does, I'll let you all know.

Damn! I've probably typed more here in these last two posts than I have over the last three months! Sorry if I got too wordy on these two. But those of you who know me from Busersports know I can get a bit talky from time to time. :-b ;-) B-)
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