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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby Fenris-77 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:29 am

scully19 wrote:I guess I shouldn't tell you that I want to bid on Sonny as well...

Man, I had to hold myself back. :-D
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby So-Tex » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:13 pm

So being serious for a second - I thought the whole point was to benefit teams which need the help first.

I get the whole idea of rewarding those who stayed active and tried to do well and not tank. But guys like me and dasein who are at the bottom because of someone else's bad management, don't stand a fighting chance if a) we can't outbid other managers (which is a fair rule as it goes for all teams), and b) can't win in a tie-break scenario since our squads didn't do ANYTHING of merit last season. Which again is skewed, because WE weren't the managers that screwed those teams up!

I really, really like playing this league so far, even with all the hiccups we've been through. But I think some of these "detailed" rules are going to need serious overhauls if we're going to make this work going forward.

I just have a hard time fathoming the fact that I'm currently in 15th place, and I can't make my team any better from the wire, even by one player (if someone bids on Weems, I've got no other prospects).

Not only that, the bulk of the discussion lately has been whether the 2ND PLACE TEAM should get some kind of exemption because of massive amounts of injured players?!?! Please! HE'S IN FREAKING 2ND PLACE FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!! If he falls down here in my territory, THEN maybe I'll feel sorry for him - but he looks like he's taking Red out at the moment, so there are NO violins coming from my camp!

Meanwhile, I can't even pick up a guy in a tie-break! And with ZERO POINTS no less! Sheeeesh... :-C
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby scully19 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:58 pm

I see where you're coming from, it is a little unfair for you to face something like this. I frankly have no ideas though in how to make it fair for those new owners who inherited a bad team, and keep it as realistic as possible as well. You got any?
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby So-Tex » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:13 pm

Nothing yet...short of a straight up reboot.

But seeing as "those are the rules" and "this is not draft, success matters here", I seriously doubt THAT'S happening.

Heaven forbid we give all the new managers a chance to have "success"... ;-7
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby dasein » Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:35 am

Some sort of exemption to allow us to dump these horrible long-term contracts would make a world of difference. 13M for 3 years on Caron Butler is a pretty big thorn in the side. 11 for Randolph also hurts, although I took that on myself, partially as a calculated risk and partially because I felt I owed ST a little something for diving on that grenade of a roster in the first place.

Maybe a revision of max free agent tie breaks too. I understand wanting to keep chance out of it, but as its set up now it seems like its rich get richer. But I also understand that people have been planing for these rules for a while, and changing that up would be major.

I imagine there are plenty of ways of helping us suck less, at least in the future, but they will all likely require some special ruling, or rule change.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby KalElen » Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:18 am

So-Tex wrote:Nothing yet...short of a straight up reboot.

But seeing as "those are the rules" and "this is not draft, success matters here", I seriously doubt THAT'S happening.

Heaven forbid we give all the new managers a chance to have "success"... ;-7

i'm not sure what you are trying to say here, or what you want me to do about this. i have said this countless times so far and i'll keep repeating it, all rules are changeable. if you want a rule changed, come up with an alternative, discuss it with other members and convince them that your idea is good and you'll get your rule change. if you are really good at it and can convince all of us, you can get your rule change right now, we don't have to wait for next season.

i came up with quite a few, if not majority, of the current rules, but i didn't force any of them on the league. they are all here because they were a) voted on or b) nobody objected to them after they were suggested (or if you prefer nobody had a better alternative). i didn't suggest any of them without a good reason. maybe some of them were not as thought through as they should have been, but all of them were inserted to improve the league. you might disagree and argue against a rule, but you shouldn't act like it is pointless or absurd

idea behind the points system is that successful teams get players when they offer same money as bad teams. that is what happens in nba and that is what we did here. bad teams rebuild through creating cap space to outbid good teams and sign free agents that way and through draft, not by getting the bonus on signing free agents during the season. as i said earlier, we don't have to strictly mimic real life everywhere, but in this case it benefits the league imo. if points system is changed with the goal of giving the advantage to bad teams, then we are not letting good teams be successful, we are trying to artificially push all teams into being average, by helping bad ones and hurting good ones. here and now you are looking at marginal players. imagine scenario where i win title this year (not going to happen, but for the sake of argument) and kd becomes free agent this summer. if you are given an advantage in points system, you're gonna get to sign him rather then i, who have just won the league. is that a good rule change?

i feel for you guys who inherited bad teams. i'd love to help you in any way i can, within the rules of course. i love our roster this year. i really think we have 16 good, knowledgeable and active gm's here and i'd love to have these same 16 guys in the league for many years to come. i will listen discuss and try to tweak the rules in some way to make it easier for you to get a fighting chance, but only as long as it makes sense for the league, not at any cost

now this dasein's idea, i like. it would be something like alan houston rule in real nba. we can discuss it further. for instance we could allow new gm's whose teams finished in bottom 4 prior to them taking them, to cut 2 player and those whose teams finished 9th-12th to cut one player. it's just an idea. i'd even be open to giving them such option during the current season, maybe with a provision that they can't use gained cap space to sign fa's until the end of the season (but could use it in trades) and maybe without any such provision. it's definitely something worth talking about

also coffieman took some criticism for complaining about no il list. his words were maybe little to strong, but he made a great point and i'm 100% behind him in that i think we should bring back il. it makes no difference whether he was 1st or 16th when injuries struck him, it's the principle that matters. nba teams start 5 players and have 7 on the bench with maybe 3 more on the il. we start 9 and have 3-5 on the bench. if nba team finds itself with 8 injured players they can still go out with a 7 man rotation and win a game. if a team were to go into a week with 7 injured players here, it wouldn't be ble to start full lineup and would get crushed in all counting cats before the week even starts. analogy pointed out by some is not a good one. at the same time, nba teams have il not only to make up for injured players, but also to develop young players, while having them under contract. il allows teams to play with full compliment of contributing vets and compete, while keeping young upside guys inactive and in the d-league. i had to drop mcgee last year because he wasn't giving me anything at the time and now he's a beast. that was with il available to me. this year i have several guys with potential to be good down the road, but are potential dnp-cd on any given night. against 14 deep rosters i don't stand a chance, but if we only had 12 active players, i would be allowed to keep 2 prospects on the il without that hurting my chances to contend immediately. all of this is more then enough to have il back. none of it has anything to do with coffieman's record so far
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby RocketsDWM » Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:42 am

Thought I would throw in my two cents: I'm good with whatever is decided.

Hope that helped the situation :-)

Forgot to set my lineup for the first time this year....ugh its bugging me. And how dare you RobSays outbid me on Brown.... :-D
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby So-Tex » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:16 am

I still don't see your logic that it has nothing to do with Coffee's record - it has EVERYTHING to do with Coffee's record - the dude is STILL WINNING even with injured players sitting on the bench! 8-o If anything, it's a testament to his management skills, not to the fact that the league has, or doesn't have, any rules in place.

He started with a full complement, got hit with some injuries, but kept on trucking. He's currently POUNDING RED 9 - 0! :-* And he needs an EXCEPTION?!?!

I'm all for trying to succeed and making your team better - and I'm not the type who believes in watering down the league to make everyone "evenly matched" (I'm a Mexican-American Republican from south Texas - I work HARD, and do my BEST to kick ass and take names!). The bottom line is there are rules which are skewed to benefit those who are already successful, yet no considerations for those who try, yet can't seem to break through. Even the draft lottery is set up to give more successful teams a 1% more chance than those who finish in the bottom 4. The real NBA's not set up that way - but we did it here, to keep all managers involved and active and not tank a season just to get a shot at the number one pick. I get ALLLLL that!

Problem is, how can I try and get better in order to move up in the standings, when all the other rules in place go against me as well? It's almost as if you're saying "Awww, too bad you weren't here when we started the league, but you just won't get the chance to do well, period."

What I should have done was be an a-hole about Humpries, and dropped him quick over the weekend, then put my first bid in when there would have been the least amount of traffic on the forum. But I DIDN'T do that - I even PM'd you about that - because I'm NOT LIKE THAT, and I didn't want to cause any trouble - plus, I wanted to be "FAIR". And I noticed you were pretty quick to drop him off my roster (which I DIDN'T complain about), even though technically the contract didn't come up until later that day, AND I would have dropped him myself in good faith - hell, I did it before with Telfair.

So the only way I would have had a shot at keeping Hump beyond the 7 day contract would have been to try and push the envelope on the rules. There are no special provisions given to me for deciding to hang on to him, or anything like that. And as it stands now, the only chance I have to pick him up is through trades. So why do I need to give up something now, when I didn't even have a chance at getting him straight up, especially considering I already had him on my roster for 7 days?

I mean, seriously, look at how the tie-break played out with Ben Wallace. I get ZERO POINTS! Are you saying that the 15th place team, who could use a guy strictly for rebounding and defensive stats, doesn't have ANY CHANCE of picking up Ben Wallace? It's BEN FREAKING WALLACE! I'm not asking for your Kevin Durant, I'm just asking for the chance to BEAT YOU with said KD!

So now, I CAN'T bid for Hump, I DON'T have a number's chance at Wallace, I can't bid anymore Dampier, and quite frankly, if I put a bid out for any other scrub that's worth it, "under the cap" guys will just shut me out and pick them up. Meanwhile, I have bad contracts which are holding me back, which I had nothing to do with.

I'm too flustered right now to come up with any ideas other than to demand a straight reboot next season. Maybe when I cool off some, I'll think of something else. But with some here in this league seeming to miss the point, it's useless arguing or debating about it.

Enjoy your FA pickups guys - but just remember that karma's a bitch! :-C

And sorry for the EDITS - just so pissed off right now that I can't even type straight! :-C
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby scully19 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:28 am

I am not sure why you are freaking out...didn't everyone basically agree and then said 'let's come up with something?'. No one is trying to screw you, basically everyone agreed with you, so why are you so upset?
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby scully19 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:30 am

Here's something, how about the new GMs with the crap teams win the tie breakers.
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