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Moderators: RedHopeful, silentjim, Fenris-77, DVauthrin, dasein

Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby RedHopeful » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:22 pm

Fenris-77 wrote:I don't think we need rules against tanking, aside from maybe adding it to the league 'constitution' (although we don't actually have one :-b ). I'd rather leave the lottery as much like the NBA and just make obvious tanking cause for expulsion from the league. This is supposed to be a friendly league with high-end managers, and I think we can plan the rules to reflect that. That said, I'm fine with the idea of giving managers some incentive to play right to the end too, since it helps keep all the managers active until the bitter end.

Oh yeah, and I'd like see if we can't figure out a better way to track IL guys. Personally, I'm all for just having them on the actual rosters since that saves all the record keeping and double checking trouble and keeps them out of the potential player pool. I guess it would require the teams to be expended by two bench slots that can only be used for declared IL players. I got heartily sick of having to double check the IL every time I was looking at FAs. Even if they're not on the rosters (although I think that's simplest) there should be a more elegant solution than the one we used last year.

Agree with both of these points. Since there are no limits on how many times players move from active to inactive (and vice versa) in the NBA, I agree with just expanding the bench by the two players. However, of course we should keep a limit on new fa signings.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby scully19 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:10 pm

I've mentioned the part about just having NBA odds as well to Kal, and would be on board with that, but took the original bid as a bare minimum of things that need to get fixed.

I'm right there with you Fenris, I don't think we really need to discourage tanking, and then just have a standing rule that anyone caught blatantly tanking will be wished good luck and said good bye to. That should be enough to deter it.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby scully19 » Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:37 am

Another thing I would like to see changed is the way auctions work (I know, weird that I can bring something up before it is already happening). When a bid is proven to be illegal I don't think the time should be reset to the previous bids time, but still the to illegal bid. For one we are not in a race for time, and for 2 it was always due to some small accident or something like that. This is another rule that comes down to trust in the guys we have to not be dicks and purposely mess things up for everyone. It's the only reason we do it that way, but I think it is quite stupid.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby Markos » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:40 pm

scully19 wrote:I'm right there with you Fenris, I don't think we really need to discourage tanking, and then just have a standing rule that anyone caught blatantly tanking will be wished good luck and said good bye to. That should be enough to deter it.


Word, tanking is pretty easy to spot, if someone declines to set their roster, or alternatively benches their true starters for scrubs, they need a ticket out. I'd rather see admin rule at its discretion than screw about with lottery odds, given a lottery itself is an incentive not to tank in the first place. Let the legitimate teams in need gain the benefits of holding the odds on winning the lottery, while punishing, and/or replacing GM's that think they can just decline to set their rosters to gain such. Punish in such a way blatant tanking hurts more than it helps
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby scully19 » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:43 pm

Like voiding the first round pick.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby Markos » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:58 pm

Just reduce their odds, so if tanking improves a teams odds of winning by ie. 20%, hit them with a 40% penalty. Make it clear that tanking is counterproductive, smack GM's that try it with a penalty that shows tanking in this league is not only disapproved of, it's actually counterproductive, it'll bite you in the ass.

Tanking in keeper fantasy is cheating, and like any form of cheating, the punishment has to outweigh the gains. If someone trades a productive vet for an upside or injured player, fair enough, but If someone drops a roster worthy player, or benches one when they're healthy for some borderline scrub, smack them so that it hurts and they, and anyone following, knows not to try it next time. As a league commish elsewhere I'll tell you I friggin' hate tanking with a passion, and I'll back admin here till the cows come home when it comes to letting it be known it's just not on. That said, I think we gotta be careful not to throw out the baby, as in the benefits of having a lottery system that assists teams genuinely rebuilding, along with the bathwater.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby scully19 » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:48 pm

That's it seems everyone's real problem with the current system, the team's that need the higher picks the most are not always in the best position to get it and that could hold some teams back years. Spending so many years in the basement on a league like this makes it hard to want to play.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby KalElen » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:07 pm

first of all it is easier to talk about detecting tanking then actually do it. if somebody went all out and benched all 9 starters, that would be pretty obvious and easy to detect. on the other hand, smart person (and i think all of us here fit that description) will approach things in a different way. he'll start his best players, but will sneak in a scrub over a productive player as often as possible. he will stop looking to improve his team with free agent pickups. he will be late a day or two with using il. he won't check up on his team as often. how are we supposed to monitor all of this? much more efficient way to prevent tanking is to reward those who don't do it then to punish those who do. that way there is no need to judge other gm's and their activity/effort level, which holds potential for conflict. lottery odds in place stimulate all 16 teams to compete to the end. with amendment of only top 3 picks being decided by the lottery, bad teams still get high picks, but tanking hurts their lottery chances in stead of helping them. for me that is a perfect solution. rewarding rather then punishing is always better way to go imo

btw anybody who is tanking/inactive is gonna be kicked out, so we have to be very careful when accusing somebody of doing it

as for biding procedure change, i see no reason for it. 24h is more then enough and bidding procedure isn't complicated at all. if somebody makes invalid bid he has only himself to blame for it. by allowing the clock to be reset with invalid bids, we prolong the bidding and not only waste time, but also affect people's bidding strategies. even an honest mistake can screw over other people so there is no reason for us to do that
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby scully19 » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:36 pm

KalElen wrote:much more efficient way to prevent tanking is to reward those who don't do it then to punish those who do.

Just wanted to comment slightly here in saying what about those whose teams just suck. They get hurt more for just being bad, because they finish at the bottom where a tanker would finish.

Also, this would still be slightly resolved with drafting the top 3 spots in lottery and then the rest placed based on standings. I would think that maybe even doing a top 2 spots since this isn't a 30 team league like the nba and we shrink it down accordingly.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby KalElen » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:46 pm

scully19 wrote:I would think that maybe even doing a top 2 spots since this isn't a 30 team league like the nba and we shrink it down accordingly.

i'm cool with this too


on a different note. if any of you guys want to see any of our rules changed, now is the time to bring it up. we'll have a vote soon on some changes, so it would be good to get them all in one go
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