KalElen wrote:first of all it is easier to talk about detecting tanking then actually do it. if somebody went all out and benched all 9 starters, that would be pretty obvious and easy to detect. on the other hand, smart person (and i think all of us here fit that description) will approach things in a different way. he'll start his best players, but will sneak in a scrub over a productive player as often as possible. he will stop looking to improve his team with free agent pickups. he will be late a day or two with using il. he won't check up on his team as often. how are we supposed to monitor all of this? much more efficient way to prevent tanking is to reward those who don't do it then to punish those who do. that way there is no need to judge other gm's and their activity/effort level, which holds potential for conflict. lottery odds in place stimulate all 16 teams to compete to the end. with amendment of only top 3 picks being decided by the lottery, bad teams still get high picks, but tanking hurts their lottery chances in stead of helping them. for me that is a perfect solution. rewarding rather then punishing is always better way to go imo
btw anybody who is tanking/inactive is gonna be kicked out, so we have to be very careful when accusing somebody of doing it
as for biding procedure change, i see no reason for it. 24h is more then enough and bidding procedure isn't complicated at all. if somebody makes invalid bid he has only himself to blame for it. by allowing the clock to be reset with invalid bids, we prolong the bidding and not only waste time, but also affect people's bidding strategies. even an honest mistake can screw over other people so there is no reason for us to do that
First off, I noticed that there have been some more posts since I started writing this, so I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not directing this at anyone in particular. I just think it should still be said though, partly because it's another opinion, but mostly because it took me some time to put it all together.
Regarding the whole "How do you tell?" argument, you make some good points Kal. A good example of asking "How do you tell?" is what happened to me in my own league last year.
Last season, I had a rough year in the first league I ever commished - it was a H2H league with 8 playoff teams, no bye week. I started the season with a win in week 1 - after that, it was all downhill - injuries, players under-performing, the other guy's players over-achieving, you name it, it happened. And I tried every move every way to next Friday and nothing helped - trades, add/drops, the whole nine yards. Just when I looked like I was done though, my guys woke up! I started winning again! Made a few more moves, and suddenly, it looked like I might actually make the eighth seed of the playoffs. I had an easy match-up that last week, and was hoping I could do well enough to leap-frog the 8th place team. He had a tough match-up with a solid looking playoff team, and I figured it would be tough for him to hold his lead over me.
Well, I come to find out the first day of that week, my competition's opponent purposefully
benched his whole lineup! Needless to say, I was pissed! I thought he was tanking just to keep me out of the playoffs, or maybe there was collusion involved, or even just to spite me - you know, all sorts of bad stuff went through my mind. But as commish, I still had to be careful and address it in a fair manner. I openly called out the manager who was tanking because I wanted to hear a legitimate
reason for his actions. And guess what. He responded. Turned out, he did the math, crunched all the numbers, and figured his odds were better if he LOST that week, thus being slotted a seed lower.
So basically, he tanked so he could have a better chance at winning in the first round of the playoffs. Now, I didn't agree with the strategy one bit, and I told him that. But I respected his decision and didn't change a thing. He had a good reason to do what he did for his chances, and in the end it worked - he got the match-up he wanted. Of course, karma reared it's head as he lost in the first round anyway.
Fact is, managers will do different things in order to win. And sometimes, albeit very rarely
, tanking is one of them. But what we want in this league is something to play FOR
, regardless of where we end up in the standings. And I agree with Kal - it's better to figure out a way to reward
play from top to bottom rather than try and police everyone, and punish the "offenders".Which brings me to my other point:
What seems to be lost in this whole discussion
is that a good manager with a bad team doesn't deserve
a top draft pick. He doesn't deserve
anything! NO ONE deserves
anything! You gotta earn it! And you do that by fixing things
- make some trades, sign some free agents, draft a few guys when you can, do your homework, crunch your numbers. Sure, it's just a fantasy game - but in a league like this, it takes work
to have success.
You remember back when we were selecting our teams? I could easily have taken a better team that would have given me a better chance to win or do well. But part of me said, "Hell, that's too easy! I want to earn
my place here." And I like
the challenge of taking something so bad and turning it around. I'd rather start with a bad team, do my thing, and finish 4th with some respect, than start with that same bad team, blame the old manager for screwing it up, then ask "Can I have my first round draft pick please, because I "deserve"
In my opinion, if you're a good enough manager - not an uber-geek, mind you, but just a good manager with common sense - you can take any team
in any league
, and make it competitive - even in this league! But success is not going to happen simply because I finished in the bottom four with the chance to pick a top rookie for next year. That's just crazy talk. How many of those rookies are going to be top 20 players next year? One? Maybe
If this was a straight redraft league, or even a keeper league with a redraft of Free Agents, then
I'd have issues with the potential for guys to tank. Because then, you KNOW
you would have a chance at getting some legitimate value and talent next year - so where's the incentive to finish in 14th? Just tank, finish dead last, and get the #1 pick in next year's re-draft - get you a solid veteran, and suddenly you're on your way. Now THAT, to me, is taking the easy way out. And that's the type of behavior we should
But we're talking about drafting rookies - and everyone knows that drafting rookies works great for real life teams, fantasy not so much. Sure, there will
be those gems we find here or there, I agree. Hell, this year there may be several! But if I
do any damage in this league this year with the squad I took on, it's going to be because of the trades I made, and the free agents I signed. Not
because I drafted Cole Aldrich in the first round.
I do agree we need to address the system in order to make it competitive for everyone
, including whoever will be ranked 16th this season. But we also need to keep the "tanking" conversation in perspective. I'm
certainly not going to tank a game, a week, a season, just to get a 1st round draft pick, even a high one. If I DO manage to end up with the #1 pick overall next year, great! I'll do what I can to build around him for the future. But he
won't be the reason why I win anything. I will.
Sorry if I went off on everyone, but I just had to air my two cents...
And with regards to the latest posts, any idea that makes the league a better, more competitive place is fine with me.