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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby silentjim » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:55 pm

DVauthrin wrote:
silentjim wrote:
So-Tex wrote:Well that's where I'm confused now. I get how it's supposed to work, but now I'm all spun around in circles I guess. :*)

I've got to look at my spreadsheet again, and compare it with what's online to see if I'm getting the whole "restricted free agent" thing... :-S


Yeah, I'm talking about rule 3.3 that deals with cap holds. Do all players have cap holds on your salary or just players that we might have birds rights on?


only if you have bird rights on them. if you picked up a player midseason and signed him to a one year deal, you don't have his bird rights.


All of my current non waived players had contracts of two or more years, meaning if I didn't have any interest in them, I would need to waive their rights correct? and any player I was interested in waiving I would maintain so I could offer the 15% increase?
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby dasein » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:59 pm

silentjim wrote:Do we technically need to waive the rights of our free agents to make sure we have cap room to resign them or other free agents?


The cap hold of a player is ignored for the purpose of signing that player.

e.g. You had Wade at 20M (last season) and he's now a free agent. When you add up all your contracts and cap holds, it comes to 60M (including Wade). You can still offer Wade a max salary for this year because you don't count his cap hold when trying to sign him, i.e your liability would only be 40M (excluding Wade).
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby DVauthrin » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:02 pm

silentjim wrote:
DVauthrin wrote:
silentjim wrote:
Yeah, I'm talking about rule 3.3 that deals with cap holds. Do all players have cap holds on your salary or just players that we might have birds rights on?


only if you have bird rights on them. if you picked up a player midseason and signed him to a one year deal, you don't have his bird rights.


All of my current non waived players had contracts of two or more years, meaning if I didn't have any interest in them, I would need to waive their rights correct? and any player I was interested in waiving I would maintain so I could offer the 15% increase?


if you waive the cap hold of one of your free agents, you lose the bird right privilege. Like when I waived Al Harrington, I did that to increase the amount of salary I could offer to other team's free agents. It also means he is now a general FA and gets 10% increases from everyone, including me.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby dasein » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:03 pm

silentjim wrote: All of my current non waived players had contracts of two or more years, meaning if I didn't have any interest in them, I would need to waive their rights correct? and any player I was interested in waiving I would maintain so I could offer the 15% increase?


You don't need to waive their bird rights, but if you don't want to resign them it makes sense to waive them. This is because you'll carry their cap hold until they get signed (or you waive them).

If you keep your bird rights, then yes you can offer the 15% raises and you also get an advantage in the tie breaks.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby silentjim » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:15 pm

dasein wrote:
silentjim wrote: All of my current non waived players had contracts of two or more years, meaning if I didn't have any interest in them, I would need to waive their rights correct? and any player I was interested in waiving I would maintain so I could offer the 15% increase?


You don't need to waive their bird rights, but if you don't want to resign them it makes sense to waive them. This is because you'll carry their cap hold until they get signed (or you waive them).

If you keep your bird rights, then yes you can offer the 15% raises and you also get an advantage in the tie breaks.


The only reason I bring this up, is because I have basically an entire roster of bird's rights players, but really am only on the books for 26.8 million this season so far. If I count my bird's rights players salaries into it, I have 55.67 million technically tied up. Depending on how the bidding goes with the groups and how my players in the pools, I could come away with not enough players and too much money if I think I can resign my players, but can't. It also limits my bidding by quite a bit (less than 20 million compared to slightly less than 40).
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby So-Tex » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:17 pm

I'm understanding the process, just not how it applies to me.

For example, I have Kris Humphries, and I want to resign him this season. I acquired him via trade last season, but he was originally won on FA bidding (a mess I choose not to rehash here, in the spirit of "starting fresh"). So the way I understand the rule, he is NOT a restricted free agent of mine, and I do NOT have Bird rights on him. Which is fine, I get that.

All I WANT to know is will I have any restrictions placed on me in trying to get him back, aside from cap space? I realize the tie-break system has been re-worked ("success matters", remember THAT mess?), but I want to make sure I've got none of this "You can only bid 250k!" bullshit to look forward to! If I think Hump is worth 5M, than I want to be able to try and get him at 5M, or beat any other manager with a higher bid. As long as I don't go over the hard cap, right?

And I do need to see the online version of the team salaries - just to double check against my copy, what's been marked as RFA's on my roster. Like I said, there are a few guys I want to bring back - but if I'm going to have to jump through "this tie-breaker" and "that rule change", then it's going to be another loooooong "shortened" season! :-C
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby DVauthrin » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:19 pm

silentjim wrote:
dasein wrote:
silentjim wrote: All of my current non waived players had contracts of two or more years, meaning if I didn't have any interest in them, I would need to waive their rights correct? and any player I was interested in waiving I would maintain so I could offer the 15% increase?


You don't need to waive their bird rights, but if you don't want to resign them it makes sense to waive them. This is because you'll carry their cap hold until they get signed (or you waive them).

If you keep your bird rights, then yes you can offer the 15% raises and you also get an advantage in the tie breaks.


The only reason I bring this up, is because I have basically an entire roster of bird's rights players, but really am only on the books for 26.8 million this season so far. If I count my bird's rights players salaries into it, I have 55.67 million technically tied up. Depending on how the bidding goes with the groups and how my players in the pools, I could come away with not enough players and too much money if I think I can resign my players, but can't. It also limits my bidding by quite a bit (less than 20 million compared to slightly less than 40).


remember you can waive the cap hold at any time. let's say you win another free agent that makes one of your guys replaceable. you can then waive his cap hold to offer more money to other players.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby dasein » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:46 pm

So-Tex wrote:
All I WANT to know is will I have any restrictions placed on me in trying to get him back, aside from cap space? I realize the tie-break system has been re-worked ("success matters", remember THAT mess?), but I want to make sure I've got none of this "You can only bid 250k!" bullshit to look forward to! If I think Hump is worth 5M, than I want to be able to try and get him at 5M, or beat any other manager with a higher bid. As long as I don't go over the hard cap, right?


No restrictions. If Hump isn't eligible for bird rights, then he sits in the FA pool and you have no more rights or obligations to him than anyone else. You are only limited by you cap space, the contract rules, and the bidding rules.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby dasein » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:53 pm

silentjim wrote: The only reason I bring this up, is because I have basically an entire roster of bird's rights players, but really am only on the books for 26.8 million this season so far. If I count my bird's rights players salaries into it, I have 55.67 million technically tied up. Depending on how the bidding goes with the groups and how my players in the pools, I could come away with not enough players and too much money if I think I can resign my players, but can't. It also limits my bidding by quite a bit (less than 20 million compared to slightly less than 40).


I'm actually not sure what the point of having cap holds is for bird right players is. Things would certainly be a lot simpler without them. It's a hangover from the original rules that I guess nobody has thought to question, but it's probably a bit late in the game to do so now.

Having said that, it seems to me that bird rights are mostly useful only for the higher end players, so you probably wouldn't be at a disadvantage if you waive rights to most of the guys you have if you need cap space for bidding.
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Re: 2010/11 season discussion

Postby silentjim » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:58 pm

dasein wrote:
silentjim wrote: The only reason I bring this up, is because I have basically an entire roster of bird's rights players, but really am only on the books for 26.8 million this season so far. If I count my bird's rights players salaries into it, I have 55.67 million technically tied up. Depending on how the bidding goes with the groups and how my players in the pools, I could come away with not enough players and too much money if I think I can resign my players, but can't. It also limits my bidding by quite a bit (less than 20 million compared to slightly less than 40).


I'm actually not sure what the point of having cap holds is for bird right players is. Things would certainly be a lot simpler without them. It's a hangover from the original rules that I guess nobody has thought to question, but it's probably a bit late in the game to do so now.

Having said that, it seems to me that bird rights are mostly useful only for the higher end players, so you probably wouldn't be at a disadvantage if you waive rights to most of the guys you have if you need cap space for bidding.


I agree with you that it seems we don't need cap holds anymore and it just like semantics now. With the timing of everything it just seems like it could hurt people, me in particular.
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