2010-2011 Season Stuff - Fantasy Basketball Cafe 2014
Fantasy Basketball Cafe


Return to FBC Salary Cap

2010-2011 Season Stuff

Moderators: RedHopeful, silentjim, Fenris-77, DVauthrin, dasein

Re: 163. Nenad Krstic - DEBATE - Please Read All

Postby KalElen » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:16 pm

scully19 wrote:The debate about team direction has already started, since it makes no sense at all the way it stands right now. I'm sure that will come up more throughout the season and def next off season.

we have whole year to decide to that. i'm not crazy about it either so if somebody proposes a better 4th factor he'll get my vote. until we find a better one though, that rule stands.
my kung fu is the best
KalElen
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders ChampionMatchup Meltdown Survivor
Posts: 4208
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Smederevo, Serbia

Re: 163. Nenad Krstic - DEBATE - Please Read All

Postby KalElen » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:18 pm

greyone wrote:Plenty going on here. Im listening and following.

What happens if more than 2 capped out teams bid A250, B250, C250, D250? D wins the bid?

Some don't like the idea of first come first serve. But in this case...its going to be last come...1st served :-? That doesn't make sense.

I prefer the initial bidder be the lead.

More to come.

first (or last) come first served is not gonna be used in this league in any shape or form as long as i can gather another 7 guys to vote against it. it certainly isn't being used now
my kung fu is the best
KalElen
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders ChampionMatchup Meltdown Survivor
Posts: 4208
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Smederevo, Serbia

Re: 163. Nenad Krstic - DEBATE - Please Read All

Postby KalElen » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:19 pm

TheRobSays wrote:Solve the problem - allow non-capped owners to make a bid a $10K bid above that of a capped owner only. Otherwise the normal increment applies. This is the benefit of having SOME cap space.

Example

Kristic $250K by maxed out bidder,next bid can be $260 by non-capped managers (obviously). After that the next bid has to be $350K as per normal. This is fair to all and allows the capped out bidders at least a chance to get a player. Also how do we decide if two capped out managers want the same player - we should decide this NOW as you know its going to happen!

so far i like this (4th page currently)
my kung fu is the best
KalElen
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders ChampionMatchup Meltdown Survivor
Posts: 4208
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Smederevo, Serbia

Re: 167. Brandon Jennings

Postby nguy6280 » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:47 pm

1.3 (1.3 + 1.3)
nguy6280
Playground Pundit
Playground Pundit


Posts: 90
Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: 163. Nenad Krstic (BIDDING CLOSED) - DEBATE STILL OPEN

Postby KalElen » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:07 pm

Having spent all your money super early in the draft you're in a tough spot to be 'enhancing' the rules about minimum bids.
...
The root of the matter here is that there's an obvious difference between what the rules actually say, and what you'd like them to say, or what you meant them to say.


so you say i'm changing the rules because of my team's situation and later you say you didn't accuse me of cheating? that's how it reads to me. i was already in the tight spot with the ben gordon situation before and have been implicitly accused of wrong doing one more time before that so you'll excuse me if i don't appreciate even the slightest implication of wrong doing again. i'm not trying to get anything out of the process of the creation of this league, but i really did put too much time and effort to allow anything to ruin this league for me and/or others. i will concede that maybe i've misinterpreted your post, especially because we've often debated/smack-talked around this board and always in amicable way, but you have to realize that my position is somewhat unique in this league and that while i don't think that i should get any special treatment as a commish in any regard, accusing me of wrong doing here carries more weight then accusing another member

on to the issue, here's why i think i had high offer:
team can't match other team's offer to unrestricted free agent, if it's able to outbid it. only situation where repeating existing offer is permitted is if team can't outbid a current offer under cap rules


since first come first served is not a factor here, team that has cap space but offers 250k is in no advantage over a team that is at the cap and also offers 250k as a min offer, but posts that offer later then original bidder. because of that, both teams are matching each other's bids, but only capped out team is allowed to do so, that's why capped out team wins the tie-break. if you take time of posting bids out of the equation (and i guarantee you that under the current rules they are out if the equation) you get one team whose offer is legit (he matched because he couldn't out bid) and other team who also matched but can out bid. that's why i (or anyone else in the same situation) is within the rules to win at 250k over team with cap room.
that's my logic

those are the current rules. maybe they are not 100% understandable, but i've repeatedly asked for help in setting up the rules. no one stepped up on this one so i wrote it as best i could

now i don't want to create bad blood over anything in this league, especially not such a minor issue. as somebody already said we are breaking new ground here and we should make every effort to amend rules that don't work for us the moment they become an issue. i think it would be a good idea to add a new rule on the fly if majority agrees. teams with cap space can increase by 10k but only capped out team's min bid (which is still within 2 decimals rule .25->.26). that way team with cap space only loses additional 10k to secure a payer. any further bidding would abide by 100k rules and alter by 250k rule.

any discussion about whether it's fair or not to allow capped out teams to bid min offers is pointless. we started the draft with that rule in place, people built strategy based on that rule and it's way to late to change that now. making 250k from team with cap space more valuable then min offer from capped out team would have been good too, but it should have been done before the draft, now it's too late.

one additional note: there will not be mle in year 1

so what do you guys think?
my kung fu is the best
KalElen
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders ChampionMatchup Meltdown Survivor
Posts: 4208
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Smederevo, Serbia

Re: 176. Roger Mason

Postby KalElen » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:09 pm

until min/250k issue is resolved i'm gonna continue posting min bids in order no to lose out on players. should the league decide that they are illegal they will be treated as all illegal bids were in the past so i bet

min (250k)
my kung fu is the best
KalElen
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders ChampionMatchup Meltdown Survivor
Posts: 4208
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Smederevo, Serbia

Re: 177. Thabo Sefolosha

Postby KalElen » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:10 pm

until min/250k issue is resolved i'm gonna continue posting min bids in order no to lose out on players. should the league decide that they are illegal they will be treated as all illegal bids were in the past so i bet

min (250k)
my kung fu is the best
KalElen
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders ChampionMatchup Meltdown Survivor
Posts: 4208
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Smederevo, Serbia

Re: 175. Luke Ridnour

Postby KalElen » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:11 pm

until min/250k issue is resolved i'm gonna continue posting min bids in order no to lose out on players. should the league decide that they are illegal they will be treated as all illegal bids were in the past so i bet

min (250k)
my kung fu is the best
KalElen
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders ChampionMatchup Meltdown Survivor
Posts: 4208
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Smederevo, Serbia

Re: 163. Nenad Krstic (BIDDING CLOSED) - DEBATE STILL OPEN

Postby scully19 » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:14 pm

That rule you quoted says that you are allowed to match, but says nothing about you automatically being the leader when you match, in fact it goes on to say that he will be awarded based on 3 criteria, none of which says anything about team with cap space having to outbid if they are match, just that they aren't allowed to match a bid.

I still say the best route is to allow .25 bid to be matched by anyone, and then decided by the mini-roto what's it.
scully19
Head Coach
Head Coach


Posts: 1349
(Past Year: 203)
Joined: 8 Aug 2009
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: 163. Nenad Krstic (BIDDING CLOSED) - DEBATE STILL OPEN

Postby Fenris-77 » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:25 pm

What I said was that "your were in a tough spot", not that you were cheating. It's always harder to adjudicate rules issues when you're all of a sudden in the middle of the one you're trying to adjudicate. No accusation of wrong-doing was meant, implied or in any other way made. We cool?

As far as first-come first-serve goes, you're laboring under a massive misconception. Right now the entire draft is first-come first-serve, with some exceptions, not the other way round. The first guy to get a particular bid in at any amount is the guy who gets that bid. Someone who's bid after him has to outbid. You've even made that clear in numerous posts of "Failed to outbid". That's first-come first-serve right there.

What you want as far as capped out teams goes is to circumvent that precedent and allow them to match after the fact, when no one else can. What's more, you want them not only to be able to match, but to automatically win the tie breaker as well. The problem is that what your rule actually says about outbidding isn't anything like what you wanted it to say and doesn't allow for either of the above. Now, I'd be more than happy to help edit away at the rules set we've got (after the draft) and get them to a place where they do say something about timing of bids, but they don't say anything about it now. I'm not pointing this out to prolong argument either, I'm just pointing out that there's a massive gap between intent and rules as written here.

If everyone else (Kal especially) is happy with the 10K outbid then lets by all means roll with that. It's not my fav answer, but it's close, and it'll do for now.
Fenris-77
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 6300
(Past Year: 366)
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball

PreviousNext

Return to FBC Salary Cap

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues



Get Ready...
The 2014 NBA season starts in 20:37 hours
(and 97 days)


  • Fantasy Basketball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact