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Re: 163. Nenad Krstic (BIDDING CLOSED) - DEBATE STILL OPEN

Postby KalElen » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:35 pm

Fenris-77 wrote:No, actually your logic is dodgy and makes no sense. You say that I bid, and you match, and then we're somehow both 'matching'. I'm sorry, but not only isn't that what matching means, it makes no logical sense in english. There's no logical way to get from the rules as you wrote them to the conclusion you draw from them. No. Logical. Way.


i say match. when they come up with new better word for it i'll use it. take time of posting offers out of the discussion, now you have two identical offers posted at the same time. i call it matching each other's offers. i can say they are posting same offers at the same time if you don't like word match here, but that is not correct either because time is not involved in any way.
this whole auction is made on the premise of teams having to outbid offers in order to get players. teams over the cap were given the right to match min offers (in the true sense of the word). some will say that it shouldn't have been done, but there is no going back now. here are 2 scenarios
i post min first, you have to outbid because you have cap space
you post min first, i can match
now take out who posted first and what do you get? you get same situation with 2 solutions (identical offers to one player being resolved in different ways). in one you don't have to out bid and in other you do. that is not possible. we are taking the time out of the equation because we don't want to give anyone advantage based on time zones. so there has to be just one possible solution. the only possible unique solution is that you have to outbid.

i really don't see the point of arguing anymore. regardless of what you think about the current situation it's about to be changed so why waste time and energy on something irrelevant?
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Re: 163. Nenad Krstic (BIDDING CLOSED) - DEBATE STILL OPEN

Postby KalElen » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:38 pm

as for your questions i agree on 1,2,4,5. i propose 10k for question number 5, because it is a minimum without adding the 3rd decimal. number 3 is the only question in dispute
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183. Nick Collison

Postby The Thrill » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:44 pm

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Re: 163. Nenad Krstic (BIDDING CLOSED) - DEBATE STILL OPEN

Postby Fenris-77 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:14 pm

KalElen wrote:as for your questions i agree on 1,2,4,5. i propose 10k for question number 5, because it is a minimum without adding the 3rd decimal. number 3 is the only question in dispute

Yeah, I'm all for getting some resolution here. ;-D

As for why I posted again, after you said your logic was irrefutable I couldn't resist. B-) We can most certainly be done with that though. We have players to bid on and teams to build!
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184. Chris Douglas-Roberts

Postby scully19 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:14 pm

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Re: 163. Nenad Krstic (BIDDING CLOSED) - DEBATE STILL OPEN

Postby silentjim » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:18 pm

I'll agree with everything as well, with some clarification:

1. Yes. As stated, we've already been allowing this (though I'll admit I was uneasy with this from the beginning and made it known)
2. Min offers should not count against the 65 million you're allowed to bid in the draft. Min offers should count against the hard cap once the draft is over.
3. Maxed teams should not automatically win ties. Why would they? This makes absolutely no sense. In this theory someone with available money could simply state they are offering the min bid that doesn't count against the cap as well, which would mean they are both tied again, or of course we could have two teams that are both over the cap and place minimum bids.
4. Technically I think 4 should be No, but I'm willing to say yes if it enables us to come to a resolution. Like I said a few times before, why should people with cap money have to spend more money on a player than a player who's maxed out. The logic doesn't make sense, but I'm all for getting this over with.
5. It should be 10K since it's the smallest amount necessary to remain two decimals.
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184. Chris Douglas-Roberts

Postby Fenris-77 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:34 pm

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Re: 163. Nenad Krstic (BIDDING CLOSED) - DEBATE STILL OPEN

Postby scully19 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:41 pm

1. Should capped players be allowed to bid at all? Absolutely, that's why the min bid for people over the cap doesn't count against their cap. Even there.
2. Should minimum offers count against the cap? no.
3. Should cap maxed teams automatically win tied minimum bids against non cap maxed teams? Absolutely not. Makes no logical sense for this to be allowed, even if it is ALMOST represented in the rules it is dumb and should therefore be changed.
4. Should non-capped teams have to spend less than normal to outbid a min offer from a capped team? No.
5. How much should that amount be set at, if necessary. 10k i guess but still dumb, since this now means a maxed team min bid is worth more somehow.
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Re: 163. Nenad Krstic (BIDDING CLOSED) - DEBATE STILL OPEN

Postby RedHopeful » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:09 pm

silentjim wrote:I'll agree with everything as well, with some clarification:

1. Yes. As stated, we've already been allowing this (though I'll admit I was uneasy with this from the beginning and made it known)
2. Min offers should not count against the 65 million you're allowed to bid in the draft. Min offers should count against the hard cap once the draft is over.
3. Maxed teams should not automatically win ties. Why would they? This makes absolutely no sense. In this theory someone with available money could simply state they are offering the min bid that doesn't count against the cap as well, which would mean they are both tied again, or of course we could have two teams that are both over the cap and place minimum bids.
4. Technically I think 4 should be No, but I'm willing to say yes if it enables us to come to a resolution. Like I said a few times before, why should people with cap money have to spend more money on a player than a player who's maxed out. The logic doesn't make sense, but I'm all for getting this over with.
5. It should be 10K since it's the smallest amount necessary to remain two decimals.

I'm onboard with this. ;-D
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Re: 163. Nenad Krstic (BIDDING CLOSED) - DEBATE STILL OPEN

Postby Fenris-77 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:06 pm

silentjim wrote:4. Technically I think 4 should be No, but I'm willing to say yes if it enables us to come to a resolution. Like I said a few times before, why should people with cap money have to spend more money on a player than a player who's maxed out. The logic doesn't make sense, but I'm all for getting this over with.

If you answered no number 3, then all a yes here does is lower the cost of upping a min bid - there's no other repercussion, as everyone has the same chance to place min bids. The capped guy isn't winning a 'match' remember, so this question is only about outbidding FCFS min bids by capped players. It's entirely in favour of the players with remaining cap, and is supposed to balance the fact that the capped guys are likely to be bidding the min a lot.
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