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Re: 186. Yao Ming

Postby nguy6280 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:03 pm

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Re: 186. Yao Ming

Postby silentjim » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:52 pm

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Re: 163. Nenad Krstic (BIDDING CLOSED) - DEBATE STILL OPEN

Postby silentjim » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:54 pm

Fenris-77 wrote:
coffeeman wrote:I just bid 250 k for 2 years on Julian Wright. Can I do that? How much do I have to bid if I want to lock him up for 2 yeas?

You certainly can do that provided you have the cap space. - it's only the one year min bids that don't count against the cap. Unfortunately, because of the structure of what bids beat what, someone who bids a single year at 250K will have out bid you. Personally, I think a bid made with cap space should trump one made without - at least for the purposes of this initial auction, but that's not how the rules work.


I was thinking about this as well and I think that there needs to be a distinction between minimum bid and actual 250K bids.

I'm of the impression that coffeeman's 250K for 2 years should trump a minimum bid.
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Re: 186. Yao Ming

Postby nguy6280 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:03 am

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Re: 163. Nenad Krstic (BIDDING CLOSED) - DEBATE STILL OPEN

Postby Fenris-77 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:41 am

It doesn't though - all bigs under 25% of max default to the lowest year count. Mostly I agree with the theory (players don't want long, crappy, contracts), but I think it's dicey when the absolute minimum bid also happens to be the trump at that dollar value.
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Non-drafted players and MLE

Postby TheRobSays » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:58 am

How will it work if we want to bid contracts for players who were not chosen in your "mock" draft? When will this start as well?

Also, with no MLE for this season how will bidding be done for free agents (i.e those on one-week deals) who would then like to be signed for the season? Will there be 12 min offers (lets not do this again!).
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Re: 163. Nenad Krstic (BIDDING CLOSED) - DEBATE STILL OPEN

Postby silentjim » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:01 am

Fenris-77 wrote:It doesn't though - all bigs under 25% of max default to the lowest year count. Mostly I agree with the theory (players don't want long, crappy, contracts), but I think it's dicey when the absolute minimum bid also happens to be the trump at that dollar value.


I agree that the rules state this. I just think "Minimum Bids" needed to be treated differently than 250K bids from someone with cap space left.

I think in fairness, coffeeman's 250K bid for two year should outweigh a Minimum bid. There's got to be some penalty for spending all of one's cap space instead of constant advantages.

A minimum bid from a team with no cap space wouldn't technically be a "MATCH" anyway. A match would indicate an identical offer, which this wouldn't be.
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Re: 187. Andray Blatche

Postby TheRobSays » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:37 am

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Re: 163. Nenad Krstic (BIDDING CLOSED) - DEBATE STILL OPEN

Postby DVauthrin » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:04 am

Fenris-77 wrote:And counting against the cap too right? Because that's the implication. Kal is also assuming, since he thinks he's correct about min bids, that if he bids second, and bids the minimum, that the other team will lose that player unless they up their bid by 10K and thus have the entire bid come off the cap. So he'd still win tie breakers except against capped out teams.

I just want to make sure, after all this hullabaloo, that we all agree to the same thing. Because I'm ok with outbidding by 10K, but I'm not ok with him winning all min tiebreakers the way he thinks he should. I say he, but this isn't aimed at Kal, he's just the only guy on that particular side of the argument right now. I guess there's several questions...

1. Should capped players be allowed to bid at all?
2. Should minimum offers count against the cap?
3. Should cap maxed teams automatically win tied minimum bids against non cap maxed teams?
4. Should non-capped teams have to spend less than normal to outbid a min offer from a capped team?
5. How much should that amount be set at, if necessary.

My answers..
1. Yes - we've already had guys bid and win, so I'm not for changing it back and having to undo potions of the auction. We can't really change this one even if a majority say no. :-?
2. No, we decided this earlier in the auction and people have already bid using these rules.
3. No. For all the reasons I've listed.
4. Yes, I think this balances things nicely.
5. I'm ok with whatever number people like. 10K or 50K seem the popular answers, I'll say 50K.


1. Yes. too late to deviate now.
2. No, again, too late to deviate now
3. No.
4. Yes, because a minimum bid is essentially being first to a free agent
5. I'm fine with whatever the group decides on 10K or 50K
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Re: 163. Nenad Krstic (BIDDING CLOSED) - DEBATE STILL OPEN

Postby Fenris-77 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:54 am

silentjim wrote:I agree that the rules state this. I just think "Minimum Bids" needed to be treated differently than 250K bids from someone with cap space left.

I think in fairness, coffeeman's 250K bid for two year should outweigh a Minimum bid. There's got to be some penalty for spending all of one's cap space instead of constant advantages.

A minimum bid from a team with no cap space wouldn't technically be a "MATCH" anyway. A match would indicate an identical offer, which this wouldn't be.

No it wouldn't be a match, it would be a winning bid according to the rules. I'd agree that coffeeman's bid should be the one that trumps, but in order for that to be the case we'd need to change a whole part of the rules at a point when those rules have already been acted on, one way or another. I think the easiest thing to do here, for the auction, is just - as gentlemen - agree to not over bid in this case. We'll need to clarify for free agency though. I suppose if a majority of the league is in favour we can go ahead. It'll need to be written up with some clarity though, we need a clear, concise, and accurate set of rules to govern contracts.

For the moment, I'd be ok with voting to add a codicil that specifically makes a two year, 250K offer a winning bid over a minimum offer (from anyone). Call it a basic free agent offer or some such. I do agree that teams spending cap space should have a certain amount of preference shown them over teams that are capped out. Right now they can do that by spending the extra 10K too though, so we could just as easily suggest to coffee that he make his bid for 260K for 2 and not worry about rules amendments. Not changing the rules sounds easiest.

I also think that an open active slot should be a determining factor with minimum bids. It's already in the rules in another place, and I think it makes a lot of sense as a tie breaker.
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