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Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby scully19 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:09 am

I'm not sold on this kind of idea. Most of the time in the real life the real numbers get out, and even if not to the public, I'm pretty sure every GM knows the real bids on a player in order to place their bid against it. This is pretty much what we have here, except without a real good chance to show when players choose a team not the highest bidder.
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Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby silentjim » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:29 am

I think our tiebreaker systems need tweaked, not the actual signing system. Though I understand some guys will take less money to play for a contender, I'm not sure we need to take that as much into consideration as it doesn't happen that often and I think it's way too complicated to try and think like players do.
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Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby Fenris-77 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:01 pm

I think our current tiebreak system is a flaming bag of crap, so yeah, at the very least lets get a better system for that in place.

The blind waiver system is a perfectly workable idea though and one that's used by lots of leagues, so I think it's proabably premature to discard the whole notion as unworkable or somehow 'un-NBA-like'. Lets at least take a look at the options avaiable to us and get some opinions on the subject. I'm more in favour of getting a system that works for the league in this case than I am aping the nuances of the NBA free agency process.
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Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby RedHopeful » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:13 am

Out of your blind bidding options, I feel your first one makes the most sense Fenris. However, I don't feel we should run the free agent draft this way. How does one know how much to bid on choices B, C, etc that are currently on the clock when they're unsure whether they'll land choice A. Seeing the bids helps one figure out the best possible gameplan for his team since financials are finite.
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Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby Fenris-77 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:36 pm

If we wanted to use a blind bidding system for the free agent draft we'd have to use something like the system I suggested when the league was getting set up intially. You take the top X number of free agents and group them into, say, groups of five. Each group goes up for bidding on a particular day. GMs have 24 or 48 hours to make their initial blind bids, which are then revealed. In the case of a tie you add a supplementary 24 hour blind bidding period in which the tied GMs can make a second bid, which will determine the winner. If you have 200 free agents, the first block up for auction would be players ranked (just to pick a system) 1, 40, 80, 120, 160. That way you don't have too many big budget guys up for auction at the same time and people can better manage their available cap space. After that there could be open bidding on fringe guys who didn't make the list.

Everyone knows which FAs are in all the blocks, plus the auction dates for those blocks, so no one 'misses' players they wanted to bid on either. The key is to keep the auction period for each block pretty short so that there aren't more than 5 guys, plus perhaps a supplementary player, up for auction at any one time. Guys are also forced to make their first bid something reasonable too, and we could eliminate this silly 'start at the min and spend four days bumping by 10K' thing that we see so much of now.
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Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby silentjim » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:31 pm

RedHopeful wrote:Out of your blind bidding options, I feel your first one makes the most sense Fenris. However, I don't feel we should run the free agent draft this way. How does one know how much to bid on choices B, C, etc that are currently on the clock when they're unsure whether they'll land choice A. Seeing the bids helps one figure out the best possible gameplan for his team since financials are finite.


The only option I could see for solving this is staggering all bids so they all end on different days or times and you could place multiple bids and your last one is always your final.

Scenario: I have 10 million in free space cap for bidding. Michael Jordan is up for bid and his bid time ends at Noon today. Magic Johnson is up for bid as well and he ends at Midnight. I bid 8 million on Jordan and 8 million on Magic at 9:00 AM this morning. Noon rolls around and I'm the highest bidder on Jordan and this win him. I then submit a second and final bid on Johnson that's either a retraction, or a 2 million dollar bid (if I still want him and think there's a chance).

I could see people upping bids after completion of earlier drafts as well. I think we would have to make a financial penalty for those people who aren't retracting their blind bids, let's say 250K for the year to make sure people are paying attention and not manipulating the system.

I will additionally say that the blind waiver system should eliminate a majority of tie breakers on at least most players minus the minimum bids.
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Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby Fenris-77 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:18 pm

Even the ties on MIN guys should be mitigated so long as we have a decent selection of teams with at least some cap space. I got pretty much every FA I wanted this year because I could outbid the min.

If we block the players properly then the cap space thing shouldn't be a huge issue unless a team is bidding on an expensive guy from the current block and also has a sizeable supplementary bid in from the previous block. If we make it a rule that the previous bid on that supplementary player (the one that's now public, acts like a cap hold, and additionally that there will be financial penaltied for guys who bid more than their available cap space between a sumplentary bid and a current bid (or between any two blind bids for that matter) I think we'll be well covered. One of the primary adavntages of the block system is that it limits the number of players up for auction at any one time, and limits the big contract players up for auction at any one time, which should both serve to limit this sort of issue.

Just to be clear, the blocks don't get auction side by side at all - they go one after another, each on a 48 hour clock (or whatever time frame we all agree on). The only potential crossover comes in the case of a tie, where the supplementary bidding round overlaps with the next block by 24 hours. Even then, the supplementary bidding would be done before the final bids for the next block are due, so people would have time to retract illegal bids.
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Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby silentjim » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:18 pm

I'm just not a huge fan of limiting bidding to available cap space. I don't think the real nba works like this and I think the blind waiver system allows us to be able to spend as much money as possible without penalizing other bidding managers. Guys without much money would be able to land better better free agents since they won't be limited and guys with a ton of money more than likely tried to spend it in the first place, but got caught with multiple active bids that got out bid but the timing wasn't right.
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Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby Fenris-77 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:46 pm

There's no point in playing a salary cap league if that salary cap doesn't limit your ability to bid in some fashion (and the NBA does indeed work like that, if that's what you meant - at least it does in the case of restricted free agents). The blind system would prevent the miniscule outbids that we saw this year though, and that's probably a good thing. If what you meant is that you want people to be able use their cap space on more than on bid at a time, provided they bow out of the bidding once that cap space gets used on an actual contract, then I don't have a problem with your position. We'd need to set it up right, but I don't have an issue with the basic idea.
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Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby silentjim » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:15 pm

Fenris-77 wrote: If what you meant is that you want people to be able use their cap space on more than on bid at a time, provided they bow out of the bidding once that cap space gets used on an actual contract, then I don't have a problem with your position. We'd need to set it up right, but I don't have an issue with the basic idea.


This is what I'm talking about. ;-D I'm all for cap holds on restricted free agents or rookies, but I don't think we should limit your totally outstanding bids to what your cap availability is. I think a few guys brought this up last time as well and I do think its an issue.
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