2010-2011 Season Stuff - Fantasy Basketball Cafe 2014
Fantasy Basketball Cafe


Return to FBC Salary Cap

2010-2011 Season Stuff

Moderators: RedHopeful, silentjim, Fenris-77, DVauthrin, dasein

Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby Fenris-77 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:28 pm

I say we just do it. Right now, it's pretty much you, me, Red and scully manning the ship, so we might as well get some housekeeping done while we have the helm.

So...

1. Rookie contracts and restricted free agents exert a cap hold, but bids under whichever auction system the league chooses to adopt do not.

2. Mangers are responsible for pulling themselves out of player auctions where they no longer have the cap space to participate. In the case of a winning bid than cannot legally be offered due to multiple bids, there will be a financial penalty to the offending GM, with the penalty to be determined later.

Those in favour?

I was also curious if anyone had any thoughts on how to (vastly) simplify the tie break system. I was thinking of a very simple points system, with playoff teams getting +1, teams with no quality player at the FA's position at +2, and maybe one or two other things. Honestly, I want a system in place that harldy ever needs the tie break system anyway (which is why I favour blind bidding). Maybe this needs a seperate thread...
Fenris-77
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 6300
(Past Year: 366)
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby silentjim » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:22 pm

Fenris-77 wrote:I say we just do it. Right now, it's pretty much you, me, Red and scully manning the ship, so we might as well get some housekeeping done while we have the helm.

So...

1. Rookie contracts and restricted free agents exert a cap hold, but bids under whichever auction system the league chooses to adopt do not.

2. Mangers are responsible for pulling themselves out of player auctions where they no longer have the cap space to participate. In the case of a winning bid than cannot legally be offered due to multiple bids, there will be a financial penalty to the offending GM, with the penalty to be determined later.

Those in favour?

I was also curious if anyone had any thoughts on how to (vastly) simplify the tie break system. I was thinking of a very simple points system, with playoff teams getting +1, teams with no quality player at the FA's position at +2, and maybe one or two other things. Honestly, I want a system in place that harldy ever needs the tie break system anyway (which is why I favour blind bidding). Maybe this needs a seperate thread...


Agreed on all parts.

How about something like:

1 point for being an 8th-5th seed in last season's playoffs
2 points for being a top 4 seed in last season's playoffs (championship contender that lots of FAs want to move to)
1 point for filling a roster spot of G,F,or UTIL
2 points for filling PG,SG,SF,PF, or Center

In the event of a tie with the points system last year's when percentage is the tiebreaker.

This should follow semi what a player would think of if he was offered matching contracts from two teams. Are the playoff worthy, if so are they championship contenders. And if I am to sign there am I going to be a starter or a role player.

Thoughts?
Image
silentjim
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 11493
(Past Year: 735)
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless.

Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby RedHopeful » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:33 am

I like what you two have come up with in the last few posts. ;-D
Image
RedHopeful
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerPick 3 ChampionLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 18235
(Past Year: 688)
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: http://twitter.com/Redhopeful

Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby Fenris-77 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:19 am

I think we'll need some sort of quantifiable system for determining the slot to be filled by the FA. This has been mentioned before, but I'm going to bring it up again - I think we should use Basketball Monster's rankings for our scoring system. The guys with the higher rankings fill the specific slots, so if the FA had a better BBM rank last year than anyone currently on the roster then he qualifies at the specific slot. If a better ranked player is on the roster already he qualifies as the general slot. If there are two better guys on the roster then there's no bonus to the signing team at all. I also think we could, if we want, ignore the UTL slot for this system. We also may want to make some sort of provision for players who were injured (to eliminate small smaple sizes). Maybe if they played less than X games they use their BBM rank from the year previous (or something).

I'm fine with the bonus for the team rankings last year, but we need to specifiy that it's the rankings as of the end of the regular season, since some Y! leagues change the final rankings based on playoff results.

As a final thought, I think we could potentially stack on a -1 penalty to those FA tie breaks if a team drafted a first round player at that position. Or something like that. If a team drafts John Wall you know it puts a damper on FA PG signings. This may need more discussion, and I'm not 100% happy penalizing teams who are drafting high, because those teams likely already have issues. We can see if the idea goes anywhere after some discussion.
Fenris-77
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 6300
(Past Year: 366)
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby silentjim » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:15 pm

Eligibility wise, I think we should maybe just follow Yahoo. That way if a guy has SG,SF,PF eligibility and you have a PF slot open you would get +2. Instead of using BBM maybe we should just stick with Yahoo for rank as well, that way we don't have to move back and forth all the time and its straightforward with categories and so forth. Hopefully we'll be able to take advantage of some of the new Yahoo keeper options as well and it won't take much time to view someone's ranked team against the current FA.

I personally like the idea of utilizing the UTIL spot to some advantage since most players would rather be in the rotation than on the bench.
Image
silentjim
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 11493
(Past Year: 735)
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless.

Lets roll with weekly lineups ~ INACTIVE ROSTER SLOTS

Postby Markos » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:53 pm

Weekly lineups.

Easier covering injuries long term
Heck of a lot easier to check roster compliance (check once a week, not daily)
Fits seamlessly with 7 day contracts and free agent auctions.
Less screwing around clicking stupid boxes in yahoo!, just set and forget roster each week.

I outlined how weekly lineups would actually make covering for injuries a lot easier late last season, but I'll summarise it here again. Simply put, if Rudy Gay goes down for a few months in a daily format, I'm forced to either play a guy short for most the season or trade him at 50c to the dollar, neither of which are realistic. In a weekly format I can simply bench Gay and elevate another guy for next week's matchup and carry on, which is exactly what the Grizz did through the last half of the season and the playoffs. The common complaint of weekly formats is if a guy gets injured you can't immediately sub in another guy that week, but I think that argument completely overlooks how you are still stuck with one less player you can sub in/out to maximise your games played each week, so you're still missing out. Or you can trade an injured Gay for peanuts, which is also unrealistic. At least with the weekly format you can rectify the problem the following week, whereas in a daily format you are screwed indefinitely.

It also allows auctions, particularly if we are going ahead with blind bidding or secret auctions, a weekly event. Guys bid on a player through the current week and if they win the auction get to add them to their roster for the following week's matchup. Guys can simply check in and place their bids during the week, check in again on the weekend to see if they landed a player or not. Add the player in yahoo! when necessary. Wash, rinse, repeat every week until the auctions close just prior to the playoffs.

Weekly lineups would also work well with a 7day contract, essentially the 10 day contract shortenned to match the weekly format. I'm actually planning on taking this idea to the league I commish, as we have nothing like 10 day contracts there, it's a great idea of Kal's IMHO.

Anyhow, aside shortenning the contract I'd also make some further changes. The team would have the option of automatically retaining the player on a second 7 day contract. Then, following the second week the player must either be released, retained for the remainder of the season at the annual minimum, or offered a longer term deal where the team holds the tiebreaker in an auction. Also, each team should only be allowed to have 1 player on a 7 day contract in any given week, and not at all during the playoffs. We don't want streaming in the playoffs, it's not like NBA teams can pick up guys mid-playoffs, so if you want them on your roster for the playoffs you have to pay them the annual minimum.

I agree we should ditch or simplify the tiebreak process. Perhaps teams should only be allowed to use their tiebreak advantage once each season, so if you win a player's services by tiebreak because you're a playoff contender, after that you receive no further advantage.

Happy to discuss this further
Last edited by Markos on Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
Eradicating Marijuana one blunt at a time
Markos
High School Hoopster
High School Hoopster

User avatar

Posts: 291
(Past Year: 7)
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Down Under

Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby Fenris-77 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:09 pm

BBM for the values, not for the positional stuff (I should have made that clear). The Y! rankings themselves are junk and won't do - I don't use the Y! ranks for anything now, and I'm not that happy with the idea of starting now. :-b So how about Y! eligibility and BBM values. Does that sound better? We'd only be using last years BBM values anyway, so you can just get it in XLS format and add it to your draft spreadsheet, so no 'back and forth'.

I can go either way on the UTL slot. B-)
Fenris-77
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 6300
(Past Year: 366)
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: Lets roll with weekly lineups

Postby Fenris-77 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:19 pm

No offense, but I effing hate weekly lineups. :-t My vote is no, but if that's what the league wants then sure.

The league can do auctions and all that other jazz as weekly events without any needs for lineups to be a weekly deal too, so I don't really buy that line of reasoning. It is less work, that's true, but that's not my primary concern. I actually enjoy managing my team, as crazy as that sounds. :-D

If we went weekly then I'd support a change to 7 day contracts and I'd be ok with making the second 7 day a team choice thing, but I'd also be happy to deep six the whole idea, since it only make a small amount of difference unless you're a team who's right up on the cap. For example, I had cap space and didn't hand out a single 7 day last year, I just grabbed 'em and dumped 'em as needed since the cap hit is only that year anyway.

We do need an actual tie break that works outside a once-only format. Otherwise what happens when two teams tie and they've both used their one-off tie break?
Fenris-77
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 6300
(Past Year: 366)
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: Blind Waiver System - Proposals Welcome

Postby silentjim » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:57 pm

Fenris-77 wrote:BBM for the values, not for the positional stuff (I should have made that clear). The Y! rankings themselves are junk and won't do - I don't use the Y! ranks for anything now, and I'm not that happy with the idea of starting now. :-b So how about Y! eligibility and BBM values. Does that sound better? We'd only be using last years BBM values anyway, so you can just get it in XLS format and add it to your draft spreadsheet, so no 'back and forth'.

I can go either way on the UTL slot. B-)


Fair enough. We can probably add the excel values to the shared spreadsheets on google docs so there's no differentiation based on pool size and so forth.

I'm for no negatives points at this point on tiebreakers, but I think we could explore it later on.

As far as injured players go, won't per game stats fix a majority of their ranks anyway proportionally? Also is it possible people could submit what roster spot they wanted the player for with their bid, thus not needing the rankings? That way if you and I both bid on Jordan and tied and I had him as a bench player and you as a starting SG you would get +2 and I would get zero?

Simpler?
Image
silentjim
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 11493
(Past Year: 735)
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless.

Re: Lets roll with weekly lineups

Postby silentjim » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:00 pm

I actually like this in combination with a 7day/weekly contract where blind bids are submitted the same day every week for signing free agents/weekly deals.

Willing to hear other opinions as well obviously.
Image
silentjim
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 11493
(Past Year: 735)
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless.

PreviousNext

Return to FBC Salary Cap

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: scully19 and 0 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues



Get Ready...
The 2014 NBA season starts in 4:59 hours
(and 97 days)


  • Fantasy Basketball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact