2010-2011 Season Stuff - Fantasy Basketball Cafe 2014
Fantasy Basketball Cafe


Return to FBC Salary Cap

2010-2011 Season Stuff

Moderators: RedHopeful, silentjim, Fenris-77, DVauthrin, dasein

Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby Fenris-77 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:33 pm

OK, I see exactly what you mean there and yes, the last year should be 3.6M. :-B Too ... many.... numbers....

The total contract value isn't what impacts your cap space, that's still just the first year of the deal as normal. Comparing total contract size just makes for sense for comparitive purposes when determining which contract offer beats which contract offer. It also means we don't have do all the averaging of contract year values that we had to do last year (which I got sick of really quickly).

The current system compared a number that is the average of the values of each contract year, which some percentage bonuses for this and that. I think it's needlessly complicated and comparing total contract value made more sense. That's also why I added 'less years' as a tie breaker, since a player would obviously favour a deal that paid him the smae over less years.
Fenris-77
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 6302
(Past Year: 359)
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby So-Tex » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:41 pm

Fenris-77 wrote:OK, I see exactly what you mean there and yes, the last year should be 3.6M. :-B Too ... many.... numbers....

The total contract value isn't what impacts your cap space, that's still just the first year of the deal as normal. Comparing total contract size just makes for sense for comparitive purposes when determining which contract offer beats which contract offer. It also means we don't have do all the averaging of contract year values that we had to do last year (which I got sick of really quickly).

The current system compared a number that is the average of the values of each contract year, which some percentage bonuses for this and that. I think it's needlessly complicated and comparing total contract value made more sense. That's also why I added 'less years' as a tie breaker, since a player would obviously favour a deal that paid him the smae over less years.

That's where I thought you were going with the total contract value idea, and that makes sense to me as well. The rest was just me hashing out something that probably didn't need to be said.

And yeah, once we get those pesky numbers under control, it's all good! :-D
Image
So-Tex
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar
Mock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 1045
(Past Year: 215)
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: South Texas, USA

Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby DVauthrin » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:52 am

Looks good to me, Fenris. One thing I would add is that top 5 or top 10 players in the resigning process count towards the modifications. If you lose the player, that modification changes accordingly.
DVauthrin
Basketball Scribe
Basketball Scribe

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 6342
(Past Year: 163)
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby Fenris-77 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:00 am

DVauthrin wrote:Looks good to me, Fenris. One thing I would add is that top 5 or top 10 players in the resigning process count towards the modifications. If you lose the player, that modification changes accordingly.

Yeah, that sounds good. I wanted these mods to be based on who the team has on the roster at that instant. More specifically, I'd count FAs from a given team until they either get signed by another team or the home team renounces their rights. But yeah, if the team loses a guy they lose a mod for the rest of the free agent process.
Fenris-77
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 6302
(Past Year: 359)
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby barrec » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:33 am

That looks fantastic. +1
Irony is the strongest force in the universe.
barrec
College Captain
College Captain

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 421
(Past Year: 82)
Joined: 12 Jul 2010
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Gresham, OR

Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby Fenris-77 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:50 am

OK, I have some rough lists for the top 10's by position to determine tie breaks. Don't sweat the exact rankings too much, lets focus on the top 5 versus top 10 split, plus the guys on the bubble (and anyone I've missed).

PG:

1. Chris Paul
2. Derrick Rose
3. Stephen Curry
4. Deron Williams
5. Russel Westbrook
--------------------
6. Rajon Rondo
7. Steve Nash
8. Chauncey Billups
9. Jason Kidd
10. John Wall

Bubble-Jrue Holiday, Kyle Lowry, Ray Felton, Brandon Jennings, Mike Conley

SG:

1. Dwyane Wade
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Monte Ellis
4. Kevin Martin
5. Eric Gordon
---------------------
6. Manu Ginobili
7. Tyreke Evans
8. Joe Johnson
9. Jason Richardson
10. Ray Allen

Bubble - Stephen Jackson, Jason Terry

SF:

1. Kevin Durant
2. LeBron James
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Danny Granger
5. Paul Pierce
--------------------
6. Rudy Gay
7. Gerald Wallace
8. Andre Iguodala
9. Luol Deng
10. Danilo Gallinari

Bubble - Dorell Wright

PF:

1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Kevin Love
3. LaMarcus Aldridge
4. Al Horford
5. Josh Smith
-------------------
6. Zach Randolph
7. David Lee
8. Blake Griffin
9. Kevin Garnett
10. Chris Bosh

Bubble - David West, Channing Frye, Paul Millsap, Lamar Odom

C:

1. Dwight Howard
2. Pau Gasol
3. Amare Stoudemire
4. Al Jefferson
5. Tim Duncan
--------------------
6. Joakim Noah
7. Serge Ibaka
8. Nene Hilario
9. Elton Brand
10. Marc Gasol

Bubble - Marcin Gortat, Andrew Bogut, Andrew Bynum


So, a couple of points...

In actual practice, guys can be slotted in however is most advantageous for the bidder, but it's this list that determines top-5 and top-10 value as regards modifiers. So if you're 'playing' Amare at PF for the purposes of a bid on a C of some sort he's still a top-5 guy, even though Amare's on the C list here.

I've left an element of 'name value' in the rankings, as opposed to leaving it as a straight fantasy ranking. So if you have a 'name' related argument about any of the lists, make sure you're specific about what you're arguing about. Same goes for arguments based on traditional fantasy production and projections. Just to keep the confusion to a minimum.

I also think that teams should be able to count every player from this list regardless of depth. So if you happen to have two top ten PGs, or three combined 1top-10 (or 5 or whatever) PF/Cs you count the mods for all of them. That's good for recruitment except at their position, which makes sense to me. Those extra ranked players are the only time when a team would stray outside a starting 5 for the purposes of tie breaking.

Please let me know if I've missed an obvious guy too, I'm pretty tired right now, so it's very possible. :-b
Fenris-77
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 6302
(Past Year: 359)
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby DVauthrin » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:17 pm

I think to simplify, if a guy is top 5 or top 10 at two or more positions they are eligible, you put them on both lists and drop others down. I also see some inconsistencies between your lists and BBM rankings from last season, if we use per game value. Let's not complicate this more than needed. Some guys with big fantasy names may not make the list in favor of a one year wonder, but that's ok. It will change every season.

PG:

1) Paul(2nd)
2) Wade(7th)
3) Curry(9th)
4) Rose(17th)
5) Williams(24th)
----------------
6) Westbrook(26th)
7) Billups(35th)
8) Felton(44th)
9) Lowry(46th)
10) Kidd(47th)



SG:

1) Wade(7th)
2) Ellis(12th)
3) Pierce(16th)
4) Ginobili(18th)
5) Dorell Wright(19th)
-------------------------
6) Kevin Martin(23rd)
7) Ray Allen(27th)
8) Kobe Bryant(28th)
9) Eric Gordon(34th)
10) Wilson Chandler(43rd)

11) Felton(44th), Chandler moves to 9th, and Felton 10th if we eliminate Gordon for missing 20 games

SF:

1) Durant(1st)
2) LeBron(3rd)
3) Gay(10th)
4) Pierce(16th)
5) Wright(19th)
----------------------
6) Melo(21st)
7) Smith(25th)
8) Granger(32nd)
9) G-Wall(39th)
10) Wilson Chandler(43rd)

11) Odom(48th), replaces Rudy Gay in list, everyone behind Gay moves up a spot and Odom comes in 10th.

PF:

1) LeBron(3rd)
2) Love(4th)
3) Pau(5th)
4) Dirk(6th)
5) Amare(8th)
-------------------------------
6) Garnett(11th)
7) Aldridge(12th)
8) Horford(13th)
9) Al Jefferson(15th)
10) Brand(20th)

C:

1) Love(4th)
2) Pau(5th)
3) Amare(8th)
4) Aldridge(12th)
5) Horford(13th)
-------------------------
6) Jefferson(15th)
7) Brand(20th)
8) Howard(29th)
9) Zach Randolph(31st)
10) Noah(33rd)

11th: Nene(36th,replacing Noah because of games missed)
DVauthrin
Basketball Scribe
Basketball Scribe

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 6342
(Past Year: 163)
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby Fenris-77 » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:23 am

The inconsistencies with BBM rank are completely on purpose. One season of BBM rank doesn't adequately capture the kinf of reputation based thing we're looking for here. More specifically, I'm not at all interested in the list being a straight reflection of the BBM rankings, for a bunch of reasons. I get thsat the BBM ranks are an unbiased arbiter, but at the asame time it also makes the list look silly, and if it doesn't pass the laugh test I'm not happy with it.

I'm alright with the idea of shrinking the lists by double listing guys, but at the same time I think it needs to be even from position to position, so as to not unfairly penalize people with good players at position X (or unfairly benefit people with great players who drop off). As long as it's fair from position to position I'm fine with the majority position. Like I said, these are rough lists and i'm expecting to chenge them based on league opinion.
Fenris-77
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 6302
(Past Year: 359)
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby Fenris-77 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:12 am

Let me expand on my previous post...

First off, I have no problem changing the lists to reflect the majority opinion. I'm not married to the lists I posted and this is a case where everyone need to have some input.

That said, I'm not a fan of taking Gay and Gordon off the lists for injury time. They were actually that good last year, and will more than likely be that good again this year. They belong on the list. So does Wright though, so lets by all means look to slot him in. I'm fine finding room for Felton too, and that will probably be on the SG list since he's really not better than anyone currently on the PG list. Unless we double list...

I'm not really sold on double listing guys, but I'm not against it either. I'll leave that up to the majority opinion. It does seem odd though that having Bosh on my team would be a real impediment to signing other PFs. :-?

It's not about being 'overly complicated' as much as it is about deciding, as a league, what the list is supposed to represent. If we want stright BBM value that's fine, but it would also be fine to take reputation and future returns into account as well.
Fenris-77
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 6302
(Past Year: 359)
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby silentjim » Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:28 pm

Fenris-77 wrote:I'm not really sold on double listing guys, but I'm not against it either. I'll leave that up to the majority opinion. It does seem odd though that having Bosh on my team would be a real impediment to signing other PFs. :-?


Confused by this last statement. Bosh plays PF a majority of the time, so despite having center eligibility I would assume real PFs would be slightly turned off to play with him knowing they would have bench roles.

From what I can tell he only made the list on PF anyway, on yours.
Image
silentjim
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 11495
(Past Year: 726)
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless.

PreviousNext

Return to FBC Salary Cap

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Fenris-77 and 2 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues



Get Ready...
The 2014 NBA season starts in 1:42 hours
(and 91 days)


  • Fantasy Basketball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact