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2010-2011 Season Stuff

Moderators: silentjim, RedHopeful, Fenris-77, DVauthrin, dasein

Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby Fenris-77 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:58 pm

My list doesn't double up on anyone, but DV's does. I'm ok with listing 50 guys, but some GMs might like the stripped down approach that DV is pushing. I'm easy either way. What I like about not double listsing is that it treats each position the same as far as how many guys get bonuses and penalties.

I think the thing that's confusing you is that my post is missing a negative. it should read " It does seem odd though that having Bosh on my team wouldn't be a real impediment to signing other PFs". I was tired. :*)

Exactly who makes the list is a seperate issue. I'm not comfortable with just using straight BBM values to generate the list, but that's just me.
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Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby silentjim » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:07 pm

Fenris-77 wrote:My list doesn't double up on anyone, but DV's does. I'm ok with listing 50 guys, but some GMs might like the stripped down approach that DV is pushing. I'm easy either way. What I like about not double listsing is that it treats each position the same as far as how many guys get bonuses and penalties.

I think the thing that's confusing you is that my post is missing a negative. it should read " It does seem odd though that having Bosh on my team wouldn't be a real impediment to signing other PFs". I was tired. :*)

Exactly who makes the list is a seperate issue. I'm not comfortable with just using straight BBM values to generate the list, but that's just me.


Gotcha. Maybe we should revise the list based on the number of teams/managers; ie 16. So we could have a top 15 where the top 5 counted more so than the remaining top 15? Some of the teams will be pretty then going into this season, so expanding the list might make more sense.
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Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby Fenris-77 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:51 pm

Hmm, I was already thinking that we'd need to take a look at how any prospective list impacted the actual league, so I'd suggest that we need to give things the old acid test here. Using my list, my team looks like this

PG: WestBrook +2
SG: Wade +2
PF: Bosh +1
C: Ibaka +1

Your team looks like this:

C: Dwight Howard +2
PF: Al Jefferson + 2

Snake's:

PG: Curry +2
SG: Ellis +2, Kevin Martin +2
SF: Gerald Wallace +1

Coffeeman:

SF: Paul Pierce +2, Andre Iguodala, +1
PF: Amare Stoudemire +2, David Lee +1
C: Kevin Love +2



Those are just some (sort of) random examples, but they look more or less right. I'll check them out against DVs list when I have a little more time.
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Proposed New Draft Rules

Postby scully19 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:07 pm

Since we should at the very least get these going first so that we can go ahead with the draft while everything else gets finalized I figured I'll get these together and approved.

Draft is now a lottery draft, with a weighted percentage for who gets first pick similar to the NBA. I think that Markos idea of using powerballs works just fine as well as the odds are close to what we set out with trying to do. So the numbers we came up with are here:

Rank ~ Numbers ~ # of balls (45 total)
16th ~ 1-11 ~ 11
15th ~ 12-20 ~ 9
14th ~ 21-27 ~ 7
13th ~ 28-33 ~ 6
12th ~ 34-37 ~ 4
11th ~ 38-40 ~ 3
10th ~ 41-43 ~ 3
9th ~ 44-45 ~ 2

We use the first 3 numbers to determine who gets the pick. If a double (like the first 2 numbers are 1 and 2) then just use the next one. If need be and there runs out of numbers for the week without all 3 chosen then we will go to the previous weeks results.

Only 3 people will be chosen, then it will be assigned based on reverse standings of remaining teams.

During the draft:
If you draft a European who is staying in Europe, you will hold the rights to that player without paying them anything. Once they join the NBA, you are immediately paying for them based on their automatic pay based on their draft position.

2nd round draft picks are non-guaranteed contracts.

Anything else to add? Mention it. Let's get this done and get the draft going ASAP. As some have said, we are getting late, all of us are not expecting much in the ways of the league running this year but if it did suddenly meet an agreement our league would be screwed, so we should at least do what we can now so that we can finish up the rest in time to play this year and continue this league.
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Re: Proposed New Draft Rules

Postby RedHopeful » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:20 pm

With the season in real jeopardy, I'd be willing to revisit whether we should just reboot the league as Markos indicated in another thread. I'd hate for us to go through a bunch of work now (some obviously more than others) only to see the entire season cancelled.
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Re: Proposed New Draft Rules

Postby scully19 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:36 am

Ya but I don't think the NBA is going to be canceled, so i personally don't really see the point of redoing it. That's my opinion on it.
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Re: Proposed New Draft Rules

Postby Fenris-77 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:47 am

I don't see the need for a reboot at this point either. Things on the CBA front still look semi optimistic, and we need to work on the rules for the league regardless (including a better draft system) so it's not wasted work.

If the worst happens and the season does get cancelled then I'd be more willing to talk about a reboot, since at that point it would make some sense.
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New Rules Summary Thread

Postby dasein » Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:42 am

Below is a summary of rules up for change. Add anything that I've missed out. I suggest a separate thread for each main topic to help keep things clear. A couple already exist and have been linked here.

Draft Lottery

The following change has pretty much been agreed on already.

- Teams are ranked 1st to last based on regular season final standings (after tiebreaks are applied).
- This ranking is used to determine which teams will enter the lottery, and what their odds shall be.
- The lottery shall be the Australian ‘Powerball’ numbers drawn on a predetermined day, and accessed at http://www.ozlotteries.com/lotto-results/powerball.
- The odds of the lottery teams are reflected in the number of balls assigned (out of 45), and shall be as follows:
Rank ~ Ball Numbers ~ Odds of winning
16th ~ 1-11 ~ 0.244
15th ~ 12-20 ~ 0.200
14th ~ 21-27 ~ 0.156
13th ~ 28-33 ~ 0.133
12th ~ 34-37 ~ 0.089
11th ~ 38-40 ~ 0.067
10th ~ 41-43 ~ 0.067
9th ~ 44-45 ~ 0.044

- The remaining teams will draft in reverse order of regular season final standings (after tiebreaks are applied).

Roster Makeup

There is a feeling that the current roster rules do not offer sufficient incentive to carry ‘projects’. This is compounded by the need to maximise player-games played if a team is to be competitive. Another side effect is that draft picks do not seem to be valued in the league to the same extent they are in real life. No consensus has yet been reached on how to solve these issues, but a number of ideas proposed.

- If weekly game limits were possible, the second part of the problem would be resolved. Unfortunately, this is not currently possible in Yahoo!, but may be in the future.
- Switch to weekly line-ups.
- Increase the total number of roster spots and/or reduce the number of active roster spots. The purpose of this is to reduce the % of a team’s roster that can actively be played during the week.
- Reduce the rookie salary scale salaries to make them less of a burden.

Free Agent Bidding Process

There is a feeling that the bidding process is too cumbersome and needs to be streamlined. There is also a related dissatisfaction with the current tie-break rules for free agent biding. No consensus has been reached, but much discussion has been recorded in the following threads:

Blind waiver system - proposals welcome
viewtopic.php?t=68476

Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary Tidbits
viewtopic.php?t=68541

There is a lot of content here, and I’m not going to try and condense it all. Some of the main questions are:

- Blind bidding or open bidding?
- New Tie break system? Fenris has outlined a system that seems to have broad support, but debate exists around the details.
- New bidding process? Fenris has outlined a system that seems to have broad support, but debate exists around the details.
- Simplification of possible salary offers?
- Non-guaranteed contracts?

Contract Exemption

Some players are being penalised by hefty contracts that were either not given by them (new managers) or have been forced on them by bad luck, e.g. Brandon Roy. There has been discussion that some form of relief be offered. Of course if there is no season, this becomes moot as we will likely reset.

- Contract exemptions a one of for new teams only?
- Annual exception for everyone?
- Special once off for everyone?
- Dollar limit on exemption?
- Some form of non-guaranteed contract going forward?

Smaller bits and pieces
A few things I picked up going through the rules that seem more trouble than they are worth, i.e. they add extra work for the commish but don’t add obvious value to the game.

- During the off-season, every player must have between 5 and 20 players under contract at every moment. If a team violates the rule, the commish will make the necessary add/drops to bring it back within limits.
- When bidding, 10k increase is allowed only if another team uses its max offer to match original teams offer.
- After a player is waived, he will be placed on the FA list, but the team that dropped him won’t be allowed to bid on him or sign him to a 1 week contract for the rest of the season.
Inactive list can be used to activate a player up to 10 times per season. (New roster rules may render this moot anyway).
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Re: New Rules Summary Thread

Postby Markos » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:18 pm

Great work dasein, will try to get involved from Wed regarding some of the issues that need further discussion. You've condensed everything in such a way I think it will be a lot easier for us as a league to resolve the issues, and move forward.
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Re: New Rules Summary Thread

Postby Fenris-77 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:46 am

I'll start the commentary with the easy stuff: Smaller Bits and Pieces...

1. I couldn't care less about player min/max numbers. I say make a minimum number to start the season with and leave it at that.

2. The bidding system needs an enema anyway, so let's add the whole 10K increment thing in there.

3. I think it would be enough to say that the team that waives a player automatically loses tie-breaks for that player. I don't think they need to be precvented from bidding on him. Sometimes a contract is just out of hand and needs to be waived, and since we seem to want to maintain flexibility I thin we should relax on this point.

4. Yeah, lets change the rosters and eliminate the inactive list altogether.

My take on the amnesty:

One amnesty for a single contract, of any size, one time only.

I am in favour of a contract format that limits the impact of bad contracts, probably via length, but I think that's a seperate issue.

As for the bidding system, my views on the bidding system changes have already been well documented, so I won't revisit them here.
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