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Moderators: Fenris-77, silentjim, RedHopeful, DVauthrin, dasein

Re: New Rules Summary Thread

Postby DVauthrin » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:05 am

dasein wrote:I say choose one or the other. Doing both just makes it more confusing. The thing I liked about Fenris' proposal was the clear timeframe that it imposed. There was none of this last minute bidding and deadline extension. My main issue with it was that (it seemed to me) to promote overpaying for guys. I think thats easy to get around though. Just make it so the winner only has to pay the 2nd highest bid plus the minimum increment.



I agree for the most part with this. The problem with the live bidding for this season is the rule you have to hold the top bid for 24 hours to win the player. not a good fit with the time crunch. If we did live bidding, it would have to be done like this(just an example): at midnight eastern post all players up for auction that day. then the top bids at midnight eastern the next day win the player, regardless if they got the winning bid in at 11:59 pm. the 24 period would start at the timestamp on the site for the last player posted. then rinse and repeat the next day.

or you could do the same thing, but say the bidding runs for 48 hours for each group of 20 or 25 players.
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Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby dasein » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:07 am

Here's another suggestion (Again springboarding of a Fenris idea). The purpose is to keep contracts simple, and also facilitates another idea I have regarding blind bidding.

A contract (C) can be described completely by 3 variables:
1. Base year salary (BYS) in millions of dollars (M)
2. Contract length in years (N)
3. Percentage annual raise/reduction (r).

- C must be rounded to the nearest $10,000 (0.01M)
- The maximum BYS is 20M, and the minimum is 0.25M. If the maximum is offered, then r must be 0%.
- The maximum r is ± 10%.
- The restrictions on N are:
If BYS is within 50% and 100% of the maximum (9.81m – 20M) N must be 2-4 inclusive.
If BYS is within 25% and 49% of the maximum (5M – 9.8M) N must be 1-3 inclusive.
If BYS is less then 25% of the maximum (5M) N can be 1 or 2.

EXAMPLE 1: BYS = 6, N = 3, r = 10%; C = 19.8M (6 + 6.6 + 7.2)

EXAMPLE 2: BYS = 16, N =4, r = -5%; C = 59.2M (16 + 15.2 + 14.4 + 13.6)

[Just for interest, these contracts are arithmetic series, where the total contract value is
C = N/2(2.BYS+(N-1).BYS.r)] :-D

Now, the reason I came up with this is if we use blind bidding, I don't think an auction winner should have to overpay. Example:

BOS bids 17.6M for Jordan
LAL bids 15.2M for Jordan.

BOS clearly wins the bidding, but under 'open' bidding they would not have had to bid this much to win. Therefore, I reackon that BOS should only have to pay 15.2 + the minimum increase for this price range, so15.45 or something like that. We would probably have to come up with some convention for changing BYS and r to arrive at this number, and there are no doubt other finer points to flesh out but this is the general idea.

So I think that this sort of system allows teams to bid what they think a player is worth, but still pay market price if it's lower. This would facilitate fast FA auctions. We could probably run them as 24hr auctions in groups of players (as Fenris has proposed) and be done with the whole process in about a week.
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Re: New Rules Summary Thread

Postby DVauthrin » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:12 am

Markos wrote:How about a cap at $75m? Pretty much splits the difference and it's a nice round number.




Honestly, we just need to pick a number and go with it. Whether it's 72.5, 75, or 80 is inconsequential in my opinion.
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Re: New Rules Summary Thread

Postby Markos » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:36 am

Agreed, I'm not too fussed which of the 3 it is either, just proposed $75m to get past it.

Also, lets use blind bidding for all preseason activity, given the time crunch, and a few days before Christmas we can hold a vote on whether to stick with it through the season, or go back to public bidding. I don't think we really have the time for public bidding this offseason without having to implement a deadline and then wear the 23:59 last minute bids, which will obviously benefit GM's that have the most free time and live in the right timezones, which is lame.
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Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby Markos » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:43 am

Personally I think you should have to pay whatever you offered, assuming you win the auction. Aside keeping things simpler, it's more real. Teams that overpay will have to deal with the hardcap soon enough, and their players will have less trade value. Plus we see GM's bidding against themselves in real life, can't see why we should try to artificially remove it here.

Incidentally, I also think we should state how many years before an amnesty will be considered, ie. 3 or 5 years. Guys should know they aren;t getting bailed out. If ither guys are overpaying for free agents then the smart GM's will sit back and reap the rewards in time.

Lastly, I think any contract under $1m per should be 1 year max, we have too many $250k x 2 deals in the current setup. I am probably the worst offender. Aside securing the bird rights to a player for peanuts, it's just not realistic an NBA guy would sign a 2 year deal at that miniscule a salary.
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Re: Roll Call

Postby DVauthrin » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:04 am

12. 4ndrew(taking over Kal's team as of now):

4ndrew wrote:Ok, DV's twisted my arm enough, so rather than seeing my elbow pop out of joint I've decided to give this a go. Please bear with me if/when I make rookie mistakes or ask dumb questions :)


13. Fenris(obviously)

update on dch17 and snake. dch17 sent me a private message that he is out for sure, so we have another team to search for a replacement. snake is not updated with all the changes and felt very lost in the PM he sent me, but said he would play if we needed him. I responded by simplifying the rules changes as much as i could, and telling him we would love to have him if he wants to play. he's very much on the fence.

Have not heard from coffeeman at all.
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Re: Roll Call

Postby dasein » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:42 am

so assuming we can coax snake back in, the options are find 2 more managers or cut too teams. The first option would be preferable but we could probably roll with 14 if it comes to that.
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Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby dasein » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:51 am

What I'm wanting to do is put in something that is effectively an autobid. Online auction sites have these. You place your highest bid, and the computer will keep in front of all other bidders up untill this value is reached. Its a way to participate in an auction without having to be there at the deadline when all the activity happens.

You wouldn't pay 20% more than the next guy's highest bid at a live auction. It dosen't make sense to me that you should in a blind auction either. Anyway, thats my 2c...I'll just put it out there.
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Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby 4ndrew » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:49 am

For what its worth, I like what Markos suggested - the winner pays what they bid.

Otherwise, someone with lots of cap space could put a ridiculous bid in for a player, knowing that the other managers won't get near the offer. They win the auction but only pay just over whatever the others bid, and the rest of their cap is preserved. It makes it too easy really.

In real-life auctions you also have dummy bidders driving the price up, and in the NBA, agents playing 2 or 3 clubs off against each other with none of them really knowing what the others have offered, or what the player will accept. That's why managers look like they're bidding against themselves.

Btw I do like the idea of the dummy auction, fwiw.
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Re: Bidding, Tie Breaks, Salary tidbits

Postby dasein » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:44 pm

4ndrew wrote:Otherwise, someone with lots of cap space could put a ridiculous bid in for a player, knowing that the other managers won't get near the offer. They win the auction but only pay just over whatever the others bid, and the rest of their cap is preserved. It makes it too easy really.


But if 2 people do this, someone is going to end up blowing all their cap space on that player. It's really not worth the risk to behave this way. It would be a suicidal evolutionary strategy. ;-)
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