OFFICIAL SCL RULES - Fantasy Basketball Cafe 2014
Fantasy Basketball Cafe


Return to FBC Salary Cap

OFFICIAL SCL RULES

Moderators: silentjim, RedHopeful, Fenris-77, DVauthrin, dasein

Re: OFFICIAL SCL RULES

Postby dasein » Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:18 am

DVauthrin wrote:I just leave them as is. They shouldn't be outright eliminated but none of these 4 options excite me. Of the 4, I like number 1 the most.


How about if we have the current 15% raise ability, plus in auction "match"? Gives rights holders a little bit more to play without turning anything on it's head.
dasein
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach

User avatar

Posts: 986
(Past Year: 369)
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: OFFICIAL SCL RULES

Postby hi chi » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:50 am

I think this is a good way to give bird rights a little more meaning. If we went this way I would suggest changing bird rights a little so they would apply to fewer players. If we make bird rights more meaningful (I think we should) then we should also make the pool of bird rights players smaller.

Current Rule:

A team is said to have Bird Rights on a player if:
- the player’s contract was for 2 or more years, and
- the team owned the player for the whole of the previous season, or
- the team traded for the player during the previous season.

Changed Rule:

A team is said to have Bird Rights on a player if:
- the player’s contract was for 2 or more years, and
- the team owned the player for the whole of the previous two seasons.

This change would make it harder to have bird rights (no trading mid year to pick up bird rights) which seems right if we are going to strengthen them
hi chi
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar

Posts: 1098
(Past Year: 130)
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: OFFICIAL SCL RULES

Postby Da Ruhl » Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:11 pm

I realize I'm out of consensus on this, but I really thing somewhat stronger bird rights via a discount on the signed contract open up some pretty interesting avenues.

For instance:

- late season drops/buyouts of injured players make less sense b/c you lose Bird rights
- "sign-and-trade" deals add another interesting element to the annual free agent auctions

Anyways, just my 2c.

-DR
Da Ruhl
High School Hoopster
High School Hoopster


Posts: 187
(Past Year: 144)
Joined: 23 Jul 2013
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: OFFICIAL SCL RULES

Postby DVauthrin » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:48 pm

dasein wrote:
DVauthrin wrote:I just leave them as is. They shouldn't be outright eliminated but none of these 4 options excite me. Of the 4, I like number 1 the most.


How about if we have the current 15% raise ability, plus in auction "match"? Gives rights holders a little bit more to play without turning anything on it's head.


I'm fine with this.
DVauthrin
Basketball Scribe
Basketball Scribe

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 6347
(Past Year: 87)
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: OFFICIAL SCL RULES

Postby Fenris-77 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:55 pm

The rule is there to (at least in theory) give teams a better chance of retaining players they've drafted or traded for. The basic question is do we think teams should get a helping hand of some sort when it comes to retaining talent they've invested time and/or draft picks in. The RFA rule is already pretty strong (covering draft picks), so there's obviously some thought that this should be the case, but I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that the same sentiment should apply to players acquired in other ways. A big part of this game is predicting breakouts and drop offs and I don't think it's unreasonable that teams should get some sort of home team deal for their own talent.

The tricky part is that a lot of the contract related detail has been phased out of this league. When we had a soft cap and a hard cap Bird Rights had a whole other function. With a straight hard salary cap the rule is pretty weak. The best compromise I can think of is to make Bird Rights something like partial RFA. Teams could set salary marks for each Bird FA prior to auction time and those would set a maximum threshold for an auto-match (and should probably force a match). If a bid is made over that mark the home team has to enter the bidding to retain their guy, at which point they would still have the small advantage of 15% raises. The 'salary marks' would count against the cap if they were higher than that players cap hold. If a team doesn't want the cap hold they can renounce their Bird Rights. Or you could use the cap hold as the 'salary mark' but not force a match. (I think I like the second idea better - allow matches within the players cap hold)

The first idea there is a bit of work for teams prior to the FA period, especially teams with a lot of FAs, so I can see some objections based solely on that, and I sympathize. There just isn't a lot of traction for anything that works like the NBA's Bird Rights.

I don't mind jim's idea of three years and a full RFA matching ability either I suppose.
Fenris-77
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 6328
(Past Year: 261)
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: OFFICIAL SCL RULES

Postby dasein » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:01 pm

That's interesting, but the way I read it, the right's holder needs to revel his hand to some extent before the auction? So for example, I say Horford is worth 80M to me (he's not :-b ) prior to free agency which means anyone that really wants to get in the game has to beat this.

If there is auto-match, what's the real difference between me just opening with a 4x20M bid? If there is no auto-match, then what's the point of me reveling anything, besides possible gamesmanship? I could do the "match" or 15% thing without saying anything about how high I'm prepared to go.

I guess I'm just not seeing how this is an advantage, but not 100% sure I interpreted the post right either. :-B

FWIW, I see RFA attached to rookie contracts as compensation for carrying an (often overpaid) dude for a couple of years before seeing a return. It's this wrinkle that makes picks valuable, which I see as a desirable objective of the rules. And I sympathise with wanting to mirror this for speculative free agent pick-ups, but think the downside of having it apply to studs (perpetual RFAs), and also the possibility that doing so dilutes the value of rookie picks, outweighs it. We could have an upper limit on RFA-eligible contracts I spose, which would solve the first part. Though I'm not sure how we turn that into a real world narrative, if such a thing still matters.
dasein
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach

User avatar

Posts: 986
(Past Year: 369)
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: OFFICIAL SCL RULES

Postby Fenris-77 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:29 am

It would establish a threshold for matching and frame the initial bidding process in a a different way. It's mostly the same as when actual NBA franchises put out salary numbers for different guys (in the media) and then see what happens in free agency. And they wouldn't have to beat that bid, the home team is only reserving the right to match within that number (unless we force them to match of course).

The version I like the most is allowing a match within the player's cap hold, without forcing anything. That lets teams use the cap hold to their advantage in spots, and essentially allows matching in most cases save big breakout players, who should probably be bid on by everyone anyway. This mechanic doesn't change anything about the current salary rules while at the same time providing a bonus for Bird Rights holders, a combo that works for me in a big way. Teams are already dealing with cap holds for (I have to say) no real reason, so we might as well use the mechanic for something useful.
Fenris-77
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 6328
(Past Year: 261)
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: OFFICIAL SCL RULES

Postby dasein » Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:57 am

Cap holds? We got rid of that shizz 2 years ago. The only version of cap hold now is when you're leading an auction that hasn't yet closed.

I still don't get why anyone would voluntarily take on the cap hold? Just to be allowed to shout "match"? I'd just as soon keep the cap free personally.
dasein
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach

User avatar

Posts: 986
(Past Year: 369)
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: OFFICIAL SCL RULES

Postby Da Ruhl » Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:30 pm

Just my opinion, but I'm not sure we're getting anywhere on the Bird rights discussion anymore. Perhaps time for a vote and then move on.

As well, I think we should make a final decision on whether we are going to change the min bid increment at all.

Looking at about 2.5 weeks until we start and I am thinking we'll want to update the rules doc before bidding starts.

Just my 2c.

-DR
Da Ruhl
High School Hoopster
High School Hoopster


Posts: 187
(Past Year: 144)
Joined: 23 Jul 2013
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: OFFICIAL SCL RULES

Postby Fenris-77 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:19 am

dasein wrote:I still don't get why anyone would voluntarily take on the cap hold? Just to be allowed to shout "match"? I'd just as soon keep the cap free personally.

One less guy bidding that player's price up could end up saving contract dollars. I can see where it might be useful anyway.

The rule set for this league ;-D has been stripped down so far that it's hard to do anything that resembles NBA salary cap stuff. At this point we're really just making mechanics up out of thin air so that we can keep the rule in place. If no one's interested in anything that actually resembles 'Bird Rights' then I think we can safely scrap the rule.
Fenris-77
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 6328
(Past Year: 261)
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Home Cafe: Basketball

PreviousNext

Return to FBC Salary Cap

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: nsink, scully19 and 1 guest

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues



Get Ready...
The 2014 NBA season starts in 22:46 hours
(and 56 days)


  • Fantasy Basketball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact