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Re: Goran Dragic

Postby TheRobSays » Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:47 pm

My understanding is consistent with 4Andrew's that you would then need to waive a player to make room for the winning bid, not waive first. This just makes good "business sense" since this is a fantasy GM role.

That being said if you DO win a bid you MUST make room for that player by waiving a differengt player.
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Re: Goran Dragic

Postby silentjim » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:25 pm

I can't rule 100% on this, but the standard rules would apply during the season as they did in the off season. Just like you can never go over the cap with players under contracts, you shouldn't be able to go over the maximum players either.

I know what you guys are saying, but technically speaking if even for a few minutes or seconds, you have more than the allowed players on your team. If real life, an NBA team would never have more than the allowed players under contract if even for a second or minute.

Though to a less degree, this is the same things as me only having 5M in cap space and bidding 5M a piece on two different free agents and then having to waive a player or remove a bid. Eventhough I haven't technically won them yet, the rules states in cap holds that the players and his contract operate similarly to a won player in dollar value and roster space.

This shouldn't be allowed IMO and I think if you're going to waive a player to add a player then you need to do so prior, just like what would happen in the NBA.
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Re: Goran Dragic

Postby silentjim » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:26 pm

The second part of this is that if its happened before but wasn't caught, I'm not sure how we go about fixing it retroactively.
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Re: Goran Dragic

Postby 4ndrew » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:32 am

Jim, I agree that it makes sense for players having to be waived first before bidding over the roster limit, as that's consistent with having to waive before you bid over the cap limit.

However, a precedent has already been set this season and no you really can't go back & unscramble the omelette. Also, the rules still say nothing about this situation, the same as they're silent about bidding over the cap limit.

I'd suggest firstly a discussion where a specific rule addition is debated & voted on. If the outcome of the debate is that bidding over the roster limit is banned specifically in the rules, from that moment onwards no-one can bid without waiving first.

Edit: All that's needed, in the rules, is a line as follows under 4.2 FREE AGENCY:-

"As each bid made on a free agent could be successful, bids can only be made provided they do not (a) put the team over the cap limit, or (b) put the team over the roster limit. If the bid would breach either of these limits, the manager must waive or trade player(s) before placing the bid. Bids found to have breached these limits will be deemed invalid."

Or if its agreed that you _can_ bid over the roster limit...

"As each bid made on a free agent could be successful, bids can only be made provided they do not put the team over the cap limit. A team must waive or trade players to ensure that the bid would not breach this limit before placing the bid. Any bids found to have breached the cap limit will be deemed invalid. A team can, however, make bids that breach the roster limit, with the understanding that they will waive players as necessary should the bids be successful."

Lastly, as there's nothing in the rules about bidding over the cap limit, if the consensus is that its ok to do that as well, the following could be added:-

"It is acceptable to place bids that, if successful, would place a team over the cap limit or roster limit. If a team wins a bid that breaches either of these limits they must immediately waive player(s) in order to be under the limits."
Last edited by 4ndrew on Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:53 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Goran Dragic

Postby Fenris-77 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:44 am

silentjim wrote:This shouldn't be allowed IMO and I think if you're going to waive a player to add a player then you need to do so prior, just like what would happen in the NBA.

That's not how the NBA works at all though. Real teams waive a player to make room for a successful signing, not just on the chance they might sign someone. I'm sure they file their papers with the league office in the right order but that's snippy detail, not the heart of the issue. IMO, since this is a fantasy league, I don't think teams should have to waive anyone until they successfully sign a player, at which point they must waive a player in order to make room. If a team ends up winning too many guys and have to drop a guy they actually like well that's just too bad. I'm not citing :-t precedent or anything here, just relating what makes sense to me.

I'm really not behind waiving first at all. :-t
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Re: Goran Dragic

Postby silentjim » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:50 am

4ndrew wrote:Jim, I agree that it makes sense for players having to be waived first before bidding over the roster limit, as that's consistent with having to waive before you bid over the cap limit.

However, a precedent has already been set this season and no you really can't go back & unscramble the omelette. Also, the rules still say nothing about this situation, the same as they're silent about bidding over the cap limit.

I'd suggest firstly a discussion where a specific rule addition is debated & voted on. If the outcome of the debate is that bidding over the roster limit is banned specifically in the rules, from that moment onwards no-one can bid without waiving first.


The rules say 16 players at most, which I think is enough to say you shouldn't have 17 on your team. Everything else is technically semantics.

I however do agree that we can't undo things. That being said I think we can move forward with not allowing this in the future. I'm ok with allowing your bid to be ok since it wasn't brought about until after the fact.

Fenris just snuck in a post as well, which I technically disagree with. Teams might have verbal commitments for someone who says I will sign with you and then they waive a player and then sign them. We see players back out of verbal agreements all of the time (who else thought David West was going to be a Celtic until he joined the Pacers?). I actually think our nominating and bidding process works similar to real life in that someone can always leave for a better deal until he signs (IE 48 hours).
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Re: Goran Dragic

Postby silentjim » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:55 am

The other part of this is if we allow it, how do we limit it? How long do you have to add a player on Yahoo when you win him? How long would you have to waive a player to meet the 16 player limit? How many players could you have then "under contract"? Unlimited amount? 17? 18? 25? It's just a can of worms I'm not comfortable opening.
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Re: Goran Dragic

Postby 4ndrew » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:56 am

I don't have a firm view on this one way or the other. I just think it should be specifically addressed in the section in the rules about bidding, as then there'd be no controversy & everyone would be sure of what's allowed.
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Re: Goran Dragic

Postby silentjim » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:29 am

There is a whole section about cap holds in bidding that says you can't go over 75M 4ndrew, just to clarify on a secondary point.
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Re: Goran Dragic

Postby 4ndrew » Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:03 am

Ok no worries
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