2011-12 Season Stuff - Fantasy Basketball Cafe 2014
Fantasy Basketball Cafe


Return to FBC Salary Cap

2011-12 Season Stuff

Moderators: RedHopeful, silentjim, Fenris-77, DVauthrin, dasein

Re: Forfeited Wins in 2011-2012 Free Agency

Postby silentjim » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:31 pm

So-Tex wrote:Ah, ok...it makes sense reading it this way. It was the word "Forfeit" which threw me off. But I can see this within that context.

However...does 4ndrew understand that he's still on the hook for Harrelson's contract? There is no "forfeiting" the contract, even if the rule on acquiring (or in this case, NOT acquiring) is vague. I'm hoping that's understood here.

Or, are we now allowed to retract bids due to an injury which happens during the auction process (again, something I didn't think we could do going in)?


My opinion was similar to yours So-Tex, but I do think because of the timing of the injury and the way contract offerings work, that a real NBA team would have withdrawn a minimum offer if a player did hurt themselves. I think the committee would have allowed not winning said player without financial penalty (IE contract doesn't count).

All of this being said, other managers need to understand that this league works as a collective group and that the rules are straightforward without being too cumbersome. Loopholes that may exist because of the wording or because of the dynamic of how the league plays out, aren't meant to be taken advantage of. I said this once before and I'll say it again here:

If you have a question about something, please just ask before hand. If you want to withdraw a bid on a player ask if it's ok, don't just do it. If you want to waive a player after winning an auction to free up a roster space, just ask if that's ok. A better understanding will help all of us.
Image
silentjim
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 11483
(Past Year: 791)
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless.

Ersan Ilyasova

Postby So-Tex » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:59 am

.25M
Image
So-Tex
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar
Mock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 1039
(Past Year: 217)
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: South Texas, USA

Re: Forfeited Wins in 2011-2012 Free Agency

Postby DVauthrin » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:48 am

silentjim wrote:
So-Tex wrote:Ah, ok...it makes sense reading it this way. It was the word "Forfeit" which threw me off. But I can see this within that context.

However...does 4ndrew understand that he's still on the hook for Harrelson's contract? There is no "forfeiting" the contract, even if the rule on acquiring (or in this case, NOT acquiring) is vague. I'm hoping that's understood here.

Or, are we now allowed to retract bids due to an injury which happens during the auction process (again, something I didn't think we could do going in)?


My opinion was similar to yours So-Tex, but I do think because of the timing of the injury and the way contract offerings work, that a real NBA team would have withdrawn a minimum offer if a player did hurt themselves. I think the committee would have allowed not winning said player without financial penalty (IE contract doesn't count).


In real life, he wouldn't have passed a physical, so the contract would have been voided.
DVauthrin
Basketball Scribe
Basketball Scribe

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 6341
(Past Year: 166)
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: 7 day contracts thread

Postby DVauthrin » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:09 am

Jermaine O'Neal, 7 day contract from 01/26-02/01, 8 of 40 used.
DVauthrin
Basketball Scribe
Basketball Scribe

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 6341
(Past Year: 166)
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: 7 day contracts thread

Postby RedHopeful » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:21 am

Drew Gooden - runs from 1/26 - 2/1, 2 of 40 used.
Image
RedHopeful
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicResponse Team LeaderFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerPick 3 ChampionLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 18233
(Past Year: 706)
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: http://twitter.com/Redhopeful

Re: Forfeited Wins in 2011-2012 Free Agency

Postby 4ndrew » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:10 am

silentjim wrote:
So-Tex wrote:However...does 4ndrew understand that he's still on the hook for Harrelson's contract? There is no "forfeiting" the contract, even if the rule on acquiring (or in this case, NOT acquiring) is vague. I'm hoping that's understood here.


... If you have a question about something, please just ask before hand. If you want to withdraw a bid on a player ask if it's ok, don't just do it. If you want to waive a player after winning an auction to free up a roster space, just ask if that's ok. A better understanding will help all of us.


Hi everyone, just discovered this thread. As it happens, I was not aware of the unwritten rule that I'd be liable for the contract if I'd failed to pick up the player, as in the rules it simply said the auction would be void which I took to mean "as if it had never happened". I'd discussed the situation with DV prior to the Jorts auction but unfortunately he didn't pick up on my incorrect interpretation.

I'd ask something of the rules committee here as well - if you see an unwritten/assumed rule being bent or broken by a newbie such as myself, please send a PM rather than just post a new thread that the offending player may or may not see. Also if it is an honest mistake due to the rules being unclear, some leniency would probably be a good thing rather than stating "these are the rules, sorry if you didn't know" then applying it retrospectively. No-one contacted me after I edited the Jorts bid message.

My bids on Livingstone and Mahinmi were both made with the misunderstood belief that if I didn't want them I didn't have to pick them up, which has created a bit of a mess that I'll have to work through. Had I been aware the contract was binding once you made a bid regardless of whether or not you chose to pick up the player, I'd have kept Jorts and not bid on Livingstone or Mahinmi.

Lastly, I'd ask that when rulings are made, the rules document be amended to reflect the change or clarification. At the moment, there's still nothing about contracts being binding if you forfeit an auction - you may assume its obvious without having to be written, but it wasn't obvious to me & may not be to another new manager in the future unless clearly stated in the rules.
4ndrew
High School Hoopster
High School Hoopster


Posts: 314
Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: 2011-2012 trade thread

Postby DVauthrin » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:26 am

4ndrew/DVauthrin trade

DV trades
Charlie V(.5M,.5M)

4ndrew trades
Glen Davis(.25M, .25M)
Shaun Livingston(.25M)

I confirm this deal
DVauthrin
Basketball Scribe
Basketball Scribe

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 6341
(Past Year: 166)
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: 2011-2012 trade thread

Postby 4ndrew » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:34 am

as do I.
4ndrew
High School Hoopster
High School Hoopster


Posts: 314
Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: Forfeited Wins in 2011-2012 Free Agency

Postby So-Tex » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:36 am

Couple of things, and they're nothing major, so don't take this as a knock on you or anything:

4ndrew wrote:Hi everyone, just discovered this thread.

Explain please. Did one of the mods start this thread for you? Or maybe you made the original post, but are now just following up with all the replies? The original post shows it was made by you, but you're saying you "just discovered"? Again, not a big issue...but odd. :-?

4ndrew wrote: As it happens, I was not aware of the unwritten rule that I'd be liable for the contract if I'd failed to pick up the player, as in the rules it simply said the auction would be void which I took to mean "as if it had never happened". I'd discussed the situation with DV prior to the Jorts auction but unfortunately he didn't pick up on my incorrect interpretation.

It's not the "unwritten rule" that you are liable for a contract that's in question. It's the "unwritten rule" that you can forfeit a contract without it counting against your cap space. They seem to meet at the same end, but they are two different things.

I currently have a bid out on Ersan Ilyasova - if he goes off and has a stinker game or two, I can't just "forfeit" the auction because I no longer want him, or change my mind. If I win the auction, but decide to not pick him up, the contract is voided, yes. But the penalty is that it counts against my cap space for the amounts dictated under adding and dropping players (at least, that's the way I understand it). It makes sense when you consider how 7-day contracts work. Managers pick up and drop players on a weekly basis in this league...unless, said player is in an auction, at which point he's off limits (again, the way I understand things). Otherwise think about it - a manager could use standard auctions to constantly lock players up in "limbo", as opposed to allowing teams who might need those players on a week to week basis the chance to pick them up with 7-day deals.

Now, in your case, Harrellson got hurt while your auction was going on. It makes perfect sense that you wouldn't want to pick him up, even I can see that. But you need to communicate that with the committee, so they can rule on such a situation. As Jim and DV have both made arguments for your case, it's perfectly fine with me that you were allowed to void the auction. What everyone has been questioning in this thread is that you did so without asking first. Or, at least it looks that way, given it's your ID on the original post. Maybe one of the other mods made the post for you, which is fine - and if that's the case, I apologize for insinuating that you were taking things into your own hands without consulting the committee first.

And remember, no one is here to bust your balls or anything - trust me, I have firsthand experience with making mountains out of molehills, !+) and I've realized that pretty quick! ;-7 If you contact one of the committee members and present your case of why you don't want to continue with an auction, or why you decided not to pick up a player, even if it's something as simple as "I just don't want the guy anymore", I'm sure they can make a ruling which will satisfy everyone - especially when we're talking about players who are way deep in the pecking order of things.

But you can't just go starting auctions on guys you don't plan on picking up, just for the sake of starting an auction. In the end, you'll end up keeping a player, or players, from being available for some other manager who might want to use them for 7-day deals. OR, some other squad who may be trying to rebuild, or simply compete in the standings.

4ndrew wrote:Lastly, I'd ask that when rulings are made, the rules document be amended to reflect the change or clarification. At the moment, there's still nothing about contracts being binding if you forfeit an auction - you may assume its obvious without having to be written, but it wasn't obvious to me & may not be to another new manager in the future unless clearly stated in the rules.

Yes, the rules do need to be adjusted to make sure these things are made clear to future managers who may join the league. I'm sure dasein can come up with something the committee can agree on. :-)

It's all about the communication buddy...just keep someone in the know, and things can be worked out, plain and simple. :-D ;-) B-)
Image
So-Tex
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar
Mock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 1039
(Past Year: 217)
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: South Texas, USA

Re: Forfeited Wins in 2011-2012 Free Agency

Postby 4ndrew » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:52 am

The thread wasn't started by me - one of the mods must have created it using my bid post for Jorts & I wasn't aware of its existence or the posts that followed.

I had also discussed it with DV, but for whatever reason (not blaming him at all btw, we were talking about other things as well) he didn't pick up on where my understanding of the rules was incorrect. I'm on board with what you're saying now, but what's done is done - I don't have Jorts who I would have chosen to keep (as a handcuff for Amare) if I'd understood that normally I'd be paying his contract anyway, and instead my roster & cap space is blown on guys I wouldn't have bid for had I understood the rules (Mahinmi/Livingston). So be it, can't unscramble the omelette.

Edit: I'd like to request that the rules be made clear on what happens if an injury occurs during the bid process. How severe must the injury be (in terms of the estimated time out of the game) before there's an exemption? Would the otherwise-winning bidder be able to bid for the player again at a later stage? If its written clearly in the rules then there'll be less need to trouble the committee if instances like this arise again.
4ndrew
High School Hoopster
High School Hoopster


Posts: 314
Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Home Cafe: Basketball

PreviousNext

Return to FBC Salary Cap

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues




  • Fantasy Basketball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact