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Is this trade veto-worthy?

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Is this trade veto-worthy?

Postby DrKalikot » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:41 am

Hi. I’m in an 8-team, 9-category non-keeper H2H league. I would like to ask your opinion if this particular trade is veto-worthy. Your replies are very much appreciated.

I trade:
Ty Lawson (24th Pick)
Joe Johnson (42nd)
John Wall (63rd)
Danillo Gallinari (64th)

Player 2 trades:
LeBron James (1st)
Manu Ginobili (73rd)
Brandon Roy (97th)

This is my current roster:
PG Ty Lawson, Den PG, SG
SG Joe Johnson, Bkn SG, SF
SF Kevin Durant, OKC SF
PF Anthony Davis, Nor PF
C Marc Gasol, Mem C
G Steve Nash, LAL PG
F Danilo Gallinari, Den SF, PF DTD
UTIL Mike Conley, Mem PG
UTIL Carlos Boozer, Chi PF
UTIL Marcin Gortat, Pho C
Bench Kyle Lowry*, Tor PG O
Bench Kevin Martin, Hou SG
Bench Gordon Hayward, Uta SG, SF
IR John Wall*, Wsh PG O

And this is Player 2’s current roster:
PG Damian Lillard, Por PG
SG Monta Ellis, Mil PG, SG
SF LeBron James, Mia SF
PF Serge Ibaka, OKC C, PF DTD
C Roy Hibbert, Ind C
G Jose Calderon, Tor PG
F Ryan Anderson, Nor PF
UTIL JaVale McGee, Den C
UTIL Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Cha SF
UTIL Brandon Roy, Min SG, SF
Bench Manu Ginobili, SA SG DTD
Bench Kris Humphries, Bkn PF DTD
IR Derrick Rose*, Chi PG O

Btw, 3 of the five members voted to veto, which resulted on player 2 backing out of the deal. I am really pissed and I think this is very unfair. I did very well on the draft so I had the privilege of having quality players.

One of the most intriguing concerns is that other owners think that LeBron covers multiple positions; thus, I will have more flexibility in the line-ups which I tend to disagree because of the players I give which are multiple positions eligible.

The other concern is that other owners think that there should be one player among the top 10 pick to be traded to LBJ which I don't have, outside of my 2nd overall pick (Durant), because I traded down my 2nd round pick to other's 3rd and 4th round.

Also, someone said that a 4 by 3 trade doesn't justify fairness because it will open a roster spot for me to fill from the waivers. There is also an argument that you cannot trade a Superstar for a number of players. Ex. 1 superstar = 4 quality players since there are other players involved on the "superstar side". But, I made a spreadsheet calculation to prove that it is wrong. I added statistical totals of LBJ + Jose Calderon + Lillard + Manu compared to Lawson + JJ + Wall and Gallo.

The result is:
Difference: 19.8Min -0.0165FG -0.01975FT 0.2 Three point -0.4Reb -0.6Ast -0.1Stl 0.3Blk 1.6To 4.1Pts

*bold numbers are the gains of my trade partner if the league approves it. Assuming that every player has one game each. I paired LeBron with players in the starting line-up that I think will produce less than the others.

I defended the trade really well, addressing every point they made and stating the "other side" or the other point of view and even gave them proofs (hard facts) but still, they wouldn't even consider changing their votes. One owner who voted to veto already said that statistically, it is equal and fair but still vetoes it because of other concerns. I just feel very pissed and I thought that I got robbed. I got the chance of pairing Durant and LeBron which will be one of the greatest accomplishment that I can make in a fantasy game as an owner.

I am the league manager and I play with my friends. I gave them the power to veto because I thought it will be fair and also for them to have a say when I do my trades. I even gave LM powers to two of the owners. I want this league to be fun but I just feel too bad right now.

Sorry for the long post. This really stresses me out for a couple of days.
DrKalikot
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Re: Is this trade veto-worthy?

Postby spud_webb_04 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:49 pm

with a small roster every position counts and the upgrade you are getting with lebron is big.
it is not a rip off but the other managers will be screaming murder watching lebron AND durant on the same roster from day 1.
veto worthy maybe not but your team will be hard to beat if such a deal came through
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Re: Is this trade veto-worthy?

Postby DrKalikot » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:53 pm

If that's the case, then they are vetoing for their own good. They are prohibiting a team to become better through a fair trade. In real life, when memphis traded Pau for Marc, most of the teams "screamed for murder" but the commisioner can't do anything about it because both teams foresee advantages within that trade.

Also, as i have noted, I have covered all the statistical loss of lebron + 3 other players currently on his lineup. It's not just lebron but all 4 of them.Plus, if you can see, there is no category loss that has an enormous impact. His gains are large in TO and especially Pts. Is it considered to be lopsided? No. I wil improve his PG and SG positions. calde, manu roy and lillard are all below wall, JJ and Ty and even gallo.
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Re: Is this trade veto-worthy?

Postby DrKalikot » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:59 pm

Also, if I may add, there is a team with westbrook and Cp3 together. I didn't veto it even though I think it will hurt my chances to win. The trade is Westbrook + Faried to LMA + Jennings.
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Re: Is this trade veto-worthy?

Postby geodbear » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:19 pm

Being a league with 8 teams, probably hurts you in such a trade. I definitely think the advantage goes to you getting Lebron because quality trumps quantity in shallow leagues, in particular also that it's a non keeper league.

As for the other trade, there isn't as great gap between Westbrook and LMA, compared to a Lebron and Lawson in comparison. And Jennings is far better than Faried that I would probably favor the LMA + Jennings side to be honest.
Yes, Warriors sold at last!
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Re: Is this trade veto-worthy?

Postby DrKalikot » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:00 pm

But, it is not just about Lebron and lawson. That's why Ihave added multiple players with stats that supplements his team. And took virtually nothing more in return. I took what owner 2 thinks his worst players. But, would you veto it? Especially just looking at the trade itself. What if I dont own Durant? Will it be easier to approve such trade?
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Re: Is this trade veto-worthy?

Postby geodbear » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:11 pm

DrKalikot wrote:But, it is not just about Lebron and lawson. That's why Ihave added multiple players with stats that supplements his team. And took virtually nothing more in return. I took what owner 2 thinks his worst players. But, would you veto it? Especially just looking at the trade itself. What if I dont own Durant? Will it be easier to approve such trade?


I should add, that personally, I wouldn't veto it. But I do see this trade in advantage of the Lebron side. The shallowness of the league mitigates the multiple player advantage, in particular when you consider one of those players, Wall, has a good deal of uncertainty. With the other manager already holding Rose on IR, Wall is a negative for a month and possibly longer depending on how confident you are about him coming back as scheduled. Ginobili is probably worth more than where he was drafted, so the gap is not as great as the draft positions.

One point of discussion is what constitutes a veto-able trade in general. I usually look at it as a gross one-sidedness or something involving conclusion, but not everyone has that viewpoint. Like I said, I wouldn't personally veto it, but if other managers are vetoing it because they feel it is in favor of one side over the other (however slight), then that is what it is.
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Re: Is this trade veto-worthy?

Postby DrKalikot » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:07 pm

Thank you very much. I really appreciate your opinion in this matter. I would also like to read opinions of others as this particular scenario may be a basis for future trades and veto issues. This is a trade in which I think I cannot replace with a better deal in my part.
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