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Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

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Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby RedHopeful » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:36 pm

Recently, I've had conversations with several people regarding H2H playoffs. In general, the issue is anything can happen in a given week; thus, the season's best teams can often be eliminated due to any number of circumstances. For instance, the "silly season" usually spawns at least several well producing bench players as coaches rest star players, injuries run rampant and bad teams play anybody & everybody.

Is it a true test of a managers skill to have everything come down to a small sample size? Shouldn't the roughly 20 odd weeks prior to the playoffs not offer any other advantages besides often meaningless seedings?

I do participate in one league where the participants follow the no-playoff H2H format - the Octagon. In year's past, the league has even given the choice on which format to play, yet we often have gone the non-playoff route. The final standings have usually benefited the overall better quality teams instead of a team that barely squeaks in and then has their best run of the season in a 3 week span (which I've done - 2009 Bonanza).

Before I delve into all my counterarguments to such notions as no playoff H2H is too akin to roto or some good teams hit their stride when healthy down the stretch, I'm curious to hear other opinions first. Does the current system bother you? Have you fielded a largely strong team for much of the season and then had that one down week whereby you were eliminated? What say you? ;-D
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby mbuser » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:00 pm

Everyone that has played h2h for any length of time has been on the positive and negative side of this at least once. What this will come down is whether you like the uncertainty and "fun" of the playoff season or if you would prefer the entire season to determine the league's champion. I'm in the latter camp, as I said yesterday.

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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby jphanned » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:28 pm

We give Champions League managers a choice of whether to go dual (H2H+ROTO) or single format, but playoffs or no playoffs is non-negotiable. Every H2H league in the Octagon, now six years and running, has been played without the playoffs. Instead, we extend the regular season a few weeks to include those last few when the playoffs would usually be played.

Every year, I hear the same complaints out of the folks who play the traditional H2H format. Yet the following year, they keep doing the same thing out of habit. "Because that's the way it's been" is never a good enough reason to stick with something, and that certainly applies here. I've suggested no playoffs before in BOSF only to be shot down by "traditionalists" who hold that whatever fleeting excitement they get from a 2-3 week sample is enough to negate the preceding 20+ weeks. :-°
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby silentjim » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:54 pm

Just spurring conversation here, but would you guys not want to see playoffs in the real NBA? You'd just want the regular season to count for everything? That doesn't seem like much fun. Isn't fantasy basketball to some extent supposed to mirror or imitate real life basketball? The answer might be no.

I also kind of like the idea of momentum going into the playoffs. Realistically if you suffer any kind of injury early on (or injuries) you're just screwed then. You can't hope for a healthy team firing on all cylinders come playoff time. I understand the argument can be made that injuries can happen to a number 1 seed as well in the playoffs and they can get knocked out unluckily too.

For standard leagues not involving "experts" I could see the same thing that happens in roto yahoo public leagues. You fall behind and then give up.

The only other comment I'll have is that "strength of schedule" might come into play more. If you're luck enough to draw the crappy teams three times in a season then your win-loss stats are inflated. Plus taking into account the "quitters" from above.
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby mbuser » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:55 pm

I don't see how/why we don't eliminate playoffs in BOSF moving forward, given the format.
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby silentjim » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:56 pm

mbuser wrote:I don't see how/why we don't eliminate playoffs in BOSF moving forward, given the format.


I mentioned to Red that I could be on board with this. With the conference schedule we have now and the real forum winner being the best regular season, I think that makes sense.
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby mbuser » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:59 pm

The NBA playoffs are awesome! And completely unrelated. You are right that one qualifier to "no playoffs" would have to be dedicated managers that don't bail, regardless of their spot in the standings.
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby jphanned » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:00 pm

silentjim wrote:Just spurring conversation here, but would you guys not want to see playoffs in the real NBA? You'd just want the regular season to count for everything? That doesn't seem like much fun. Isn't fantasy basketball to some extent supposed to mirror or imitate real life basketball? The answer might be no.


You're not comparing a best-of-7 NBA series with a weekly fantasy NBA matchup are you? :-?
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby silentjim » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:06 pm

Rounders Block wrote:
silentjim wrote:Just spurring conversation here, but would you guys not want to see playoffs in the real NBA? You'd just want the regular season to count for everything? That doesn't seem like much fun. Isn't fantasy basketball to some extent supposed to mirror or imitate real life basketball? The answer might be no.


You're not comparing a best-of-7 NBA series with a weekly fantasy NBA matchup are you? :-?


I'm more describing the mentality a playoff system creates. Its just a mental euphoria that I think most are accustomed too and would be hard to give up. Its a mental stigma they'd have to get over, which I don't think is easily overcome. Its the same reason why March Madness is just insane and people love it. Underdogs, and so forth. 6 seeds upsetting things, whatever.
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby jphanned » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:26 pm

silentjim wrote:I'm more describing the mentality a playoff system creates. Its just a mental euphoria that I think most are accustomed too and would be hard to give up. Its a mental stigma they'd have to get over, which I don't think is easily overcome. Its the same reason why March Madness is just insane and people love it. Underdogs, and so forth. 6 seeds upsetting things, whatever.


I'm fine with the idea of playoffs, and would be open to them if you could do multi-week matchups.

The problem is, if you're comparing the NBA to fantasy, a weekly fantasy matchup at the end of the season is comparable to the first half of Game 1. There's a huge distinction in that the better team almost always comes out ahead in a best-of-seven playoff series. The same can't be said for a H2H fantasy playoff matchup.

And don't really see the connection between H2H fantasy playoffs and March Madness...
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