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Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby RedHopeful » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:15 pm

Rounders Block wrote:
silentjim wrote:Just spurring conversation here, but would you guys not want to see playoffs in the real NBA? You'd just want the regular season to count for everything? That doesn't seem like much fun. Isn't fantasy basketball to some extent supposed to mirror or imitate real life basketball? The answer might be no.


You're not comparing a best-of-7 NBA series with a weekly fantasy NBA matchup are you? :-?

Completely agree.

As to those who raise the whole euphoria argument of the playoffs, fantasy and real life are simply not synonymous. NBA teams do everything they need to get into the playoffs, then look to rest up their key guys, while attempting to not derail momentum.

Fantasy? Not a chance.

The weeks the fantasy playoffs fall in are meaningless NBA weeks to the majority of teams. By this time, those out of it, are experimenting with youth while those that are in, are sitting random guys/managing minutes. However, when the real NBA playoffs start, one undoubtedly sees the best players on teams playing as many minutes as needed. A sort of all in mentality. Nothing of the sort exists in traditional fantasy H2H playoffs. In fact, it's sort of the polar opposite. You've got to deal with headaches like Lindsey Hunter suddenly just resting Goran Dragic. Or those a bit gimpy like Kevin Garnett, get rested up.

IMO, the biggest injustice is teams that have been among the best for the season suddenly get hit with real life shenanigans and are suddenly scrambling because their opposition, who had more inferior players, first picked up and are now riding the silly season performers.
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby silentjim » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:44 am

I'm just trying to stir conversation here, but why not just play ROTO then?
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby geodbear » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:08 am

Though this should be saved for BOSF discussion, I do like having the individual playoffs, just for fun, but I think we might want to consider maybe a two-week four team playoff, and extend the regular season, since that's how we evaluate the forums.

Overall, while there is some guess-work involved, I do think some managers consider and think about how to draft for playoff format at the beginning of season, but it is true that you can "luck" into a championship - I've won a couple as a 5th/6th seed and lost quite a fair number as a top seed.
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby RedHopeful » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:12 am

silentjim wrote:I'm just trying to stir conversation here, but why not just play ROTO then?

Yep, another expected argument my good man!

Despite no playoff structure, I honestly don't believe this type of H2H format wouldn't be anything like participating in roto leagues. With Roto, one usually needs to concern themselves with having a balance across all categories while attempting to nail a games quota. With H2H, you could (and should) still play to team strengths and maximize games played. Moreover, the competition against an opponent still exists every week so that means monitoring and attempting to win all close calls.

Sure, injuries need to be factored differently, as the luxury of being at or near a top the standings to reach the first finish line doesn't exist anymore. However, this isn't necessarily detrimental to victimized teams. Since it's not ideal for any team to carry dead weight, and thus acceptable to go through a lull in the season, I'd expect many injured players to now sit on the waiver wire. It'd be interesting to see who'd blink first and attempt to stash w/o dropping much in the standings.
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby RedHopeful » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:23 am

geodbear wrote:Overall, while there is some guess-work involved, I do think some managers consider and think about how to draft for playoff format at the beginning of season, but it is true that you can "luck" into a championship - I've won a couple as a 5th/6th seed and lost quite a fair number as a top seed.

Precisely, fortune is too large of a factor in traditional H2H playoff leagues. Luck should be eliminated or minimized as much as possible, especially in competitive leagues where managers take pride in their time and effort.

I'm not certain I'd have felt as strongly about this topic say just 4 years ago, but after having endured plenty of hard luck, I'm ready to look elsewhere. Consistently putting in significant amounts of time into managing H2H teams have taken their toll, so much so, I have on several occasions contemplated on quitting entirely or perhaps limiting myself to just a league, maybe two. Also, I don't want to turn into an exclusive roto player either as I most look forward to the weekly matchups that exist in fantasy basketball.
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby Grounded Polo » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:52 pm

I've never played in a no playoffs H2H league but wouldn't mind giving it a try. I think I've admittedly been gravitating more towards preferring H2H over roto in recent years (could just be my H2H teams lately have been better) but definitely getting tired of trying to win championships when the real life teams are benching their studs. I think I lost twice in the cafe auction league last year - of course one was in the finals when my team had been completely decimated by injuries. :-{

At least this year neither of my H2H teams had a chance at winning this year without the luck of the draw that is fantasy basketball playoffs.
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby silentjim » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:26 pm

One of the points Yilun made years ago about tanking in a ROTO league was that in order to do so you need 12 (or however many managers) to really accomplish it. If 1,2, or 3 managers go MIA, then TOs, %, etc can all be thrown off and result in point skewing. I think we've already come to the conclusion that in theory this works best (like most leagues for that matter) if all teams stay active throughout. So I think if we're considering a forum based league where we assume all manager stay active than perhaps a ROTO league where you could tank a cat or two would still be possible? Again just thinking out loud?

And what about a H2H league where your team "competes" against all other teams in the league on a weekly basis? Not sure any sites do this? But wouldn't something like that, if wer're thinking outside the box get rid of more of the fortune and luck element, that weak schedules, games played, injuries, match-ups, and etc would create even in a non H2H playoff league?

Bringing it back to the BOSF, I really like this idea. Despite my team sucking hardcore most of the season, I knew there was at least the overall forum standings "we" were playing for therefore I was still trying to win (or lets face it, not lose horribly...).
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby RedHopeful » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:59 am

Why do I want to change things up? :-?

Cause getting bounced from the playoffs by Gerald Henderson, Wilson Chandler, Jeff Green, Damien Wilkins, Dante Cunningham and Tyler Hansbrough is nuts. :-P
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby Fantasy Sports Genie » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:12 pm

While it is always a nice idea to try to draw parallels between fantasy and real sports, there are some things you just can't get around. I'm not a fan of fantasy playoffs, and part of it is certainly that playoff matchups are a small sample size. But it is worse than that, because during the time of your league's playoffs, the real sports are *not* doing playoffs; quite the opposite. They're under different pressures as the playoffs approach. So teams that aren't competing have started shutting players down. Teams that are clinched start resting stars. So your fantasy matchup goes from just being a small sample size to being really random.
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Re: Amending the traditional H2H playoff system?

Postby deadshot11 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:28 am

geodbear wrote:Though this should be saved for BOSF discussion, I do like having the individual playoffs, just for fun, but I think we might want to consider maybe a two-week four team playoff, and extend the regular season, since that's how we evaluate the forums.



I like this idea of a four team playoff where each round is 2 weeks. Because the 3rd and 4th to last weeks of the season, you don't get as much resting/younger player dynamics. And then when it finally does happen in the last two weeks of the season, you should only have the championship match up in the fantasy league, which at least hopefully gets you the two best teams.

Or what about running regular H2H up til the end of the NBA regular season, and then taking the two top teams (BCS style) into a special round during the actual NBA playoffs. Maybe a snake redraft between the two managers at the beginning of the playoffs, and then and snaked signing of FA's in between rounds.

Just a random thought that popped into my head. At least that way, you'd get every real life player trying their hardest, and every NBA coach using predictable rotations.
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