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Re: Trade Scenarios and Possible FA Signings

Postby DVauthrin » Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:49 am

bujfan2030 wrote:Kind of lost amidst the Dwight Hoopla, was the Warriors signing Iguodala and getting the Jazz to take on Biedrins and Jefferson's expirings. Nice moves from their front office. BTW how crazy is it that iggy and tyreke make about the same amount of money now. If it was that close, maybe the Pelicans should have made more of a push on Iguodala.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=iguodan01&y1=2013&p2=evansty01&y2=2013#advanced::none Their offensive #'s are closer than i expected, but shouldnt iggy's defense be worth more?
Also I'm not convinced the Rockets need to go after Josh Smith. Am i alone in this?
For argument's sake, here's a comparison of Parsons and Smith http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=smithjo03&y1=2013&p2=parsoch01&y2=2013#advanced::none
Is the difference in those #'s enough to warrant taking on Smith's max contract? I mean that PER is only slightly above average on a much higher usage #. Parsons makes 2 million over the next two years.


Parsons and Smith don't play the same position. Parsons is a SF, Smith is a PF. They would both start in Houston.
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Re: Trade Scenarios and Possible FA Signings

Postby silentjim » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:03 pm

DVauthrin wrote:
bujfan2030 wrote:Kind of lost amidst the Dwight Hoopla, was the Warriors signing Iguodala and getting the Jazz to take on Biedrins and Jefferson's expirings. Nice moves from their front office. BTW how crazy is it that iggy and tyreke make about the same amount of money now. If it was that close, maybe the Pelicans should have made more of a push on Iguodala.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=iguodan01&y1=2013&p2=evansty01&y2=2013#advanced::none Their offensive #'s are closer than i expected, but shouldnt iggy's defense be worth more?
Also I'm not convinced the Rockets need to go after Josh Smith. Am i alone in this?
For argument's sake, here's a comparison of Parsons and Smith http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=smithjo03&y1=2013&p2=parsoch01&y2=2013#advanced::none
Is the difference in those #'s enough to warrant taking on Smith's max contract? I mean that PER is only slightly above average on a much higher usage #. Parsons makes 2 million over the next two years.


Parsons and Smith don't play the same position. Parsons is a SF, Smith is a PF. They would both start in Houston.


Yeah I was under the same impression.

Have to admit what the Warriors did there makes a lot of sense. Iggy's a nice fit for a team who doesn't need a 20 point scorer from the wing.

I like Asik from his Chicago days and I think it's awesome that he's just like screw this I'm not playing behind or alongside Dwight. To think the two of them could play PF/C together his hysterical anyway.
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Re: Trade Scenarios and Possible FA Signings

Postby silentjim » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:18 pm

I'm a little shocked that Josh Smith signed with Detroit. Just seemed like there were quite a few other teams mentioned first.

If Detroit could get a little extra bench depth, Knight, Stuckey, Smith, Monroe, and Drummond is a nice starting five.

I'm also a bit shocked more people didn't go after Al Jefferson. Technically speaking most contracts are only going at most for what 4 years with opt outs and such? If I was Dallas my back-up plan to Howard would have been Al Jefferson not Andrew Bynum. He's 28 compared to Bynum's 25, plays a nice inside game and doesn't have the injury concerns that Bynum has going into this season. He also took a reasonable contract at 3 years and 41 million. Not sure what Bynum's contract is going to be, but I would think someone who lost out is going to throw some money at him still.
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Re: Trade Scenarios and Possible FA Signings

Postby jphanned » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:22 pm

Gotta disagree there Jimmy. Pairing Smoove next to Monroe/Drummond doesn't make much sense for a number of reasons. Smoove is a PF, not a SF (where he'll presumably start), and even when he does slide over to the 4 that means he'll take away minutes from a duo of young bigs who need as many minutes as possible together to gel/develop. This doesn't necessarily means Monroe is on the trade block, but Detroit is now open to moving him for a guard.

That Knight/Stuckey/Smoove/Monroe/Drummond lineup is where spacing will go to die. Knight is the only above-average shooter in that group - Stuckey/Smoove shot a combined 30% from three last year, and any lineup that basically enables Smoove to take more jumpers is a bad idea.

Jefferson has been a net negative player for the last couple years. His teams consistently perform better with him off the floor and for good reason. His defense is BRUTAL. The guy can score in the post and is a decent rebounder, but he does more harm on defense than good on offense. Teams have started to catch on which explains the cooler market. That he has an opt-out after two years makes it more palatable for the Bobcats, but that team was dead last in defensive efficiency last year. Adding Jefferson isn't changing that.
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Re: Trade Scenarios and Possible FA Signings

Postby silentjim » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:13 am

Rounders Block wrote:Gotta disagree there Jimmy. Pairing Smoove next to Monroe/Drummond doesn't make much sense for a number of reasons. Smoove is a PF, not a SF (where he'll presumably start), and even when he does slide over to the 4 that means he'll take away minutes from a duo of young bigs who need as many minutes as possible together to gel/develop. This doesn't necessarily means Monroe is on the trade block, but Detroit is now open to moving him for a guard.

That Knight/Stuckey/Smoove/Monroe/Drummond lineup is where spacing will go to die. Knight is the only above-average shooter in that group - Stuckey/Smoove shot a combined 30% from three last year, and any lineup that basically enables Smoove to take more jumpers is a bad idea.

Jefferson has been a net negative player for the last couple years. His teams consistently perform better with him off the floor and for good reason. His defense is BRUTAL. The guy can score in the post and is a decent rebounder, but he does more harm on defense than good on offense. Teams have started to catch on which explains the cooler market. That he has an opt-out after two years makes it more palatable for the Bobcats, but that team was dead last in defensive efficiency last year. Adding Jefferson isn't changing that.


I agree 100% on Josh Smith in Detroit being an odd fit. I meant much better than what they had before. I read somewhere (as a joke of course) that Smith was promised who could chuck as many threes as possible as the starting SF. Hahahaha.

Bynum was never much of a defender either was he? Jefferson and Bynum had about even DWS from season to season, but Jefferson actually had a better defensive rating than Bynum (quick Basketball Reference lookup). Have to admit I haven't seen much of either guy play in person though over the last few seasons.
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Re: Trade Scenarios and Possible FA Signings

Postby jphanned » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:10 pm

I'll let the far smarter Zach Lowe sum it up for me:

The Jefferson contract is bad. There is no way anyone could have watched the NBA over the last few seasons and concluded Jefferson might be worth double Millsap over the potential length of their deals, and about $4 million more than Millsap over a per-year basis. He’s a slow-footed, not intuitive defender against the pick-and-roll in a league in which just about every team runs a pick-and-roll on every possession. Want to be depressed, Charlotte fans? Find video of the Spurs-Jazz series from the 2012 playoffs.
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Re: Trade Scenarios and Possible FA Signings

Postby Fenris-77 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:04 pm

What sprang to mind when I read that article by Lowe wasn't actually that the Jefferson contract was terrible, but rather that Atlanta got a great deal on Paul Millsap. He's only making a couple mil more a season than the guys in that Redick/Korver grouping of contracts from this year, he'll be making something like 3M less than Pekovic, and about the same as Tiago Splitter. Millsap's is on of only a couple of deals this year that really made me think a team had gotten a great deal. The Jefferson contract is bloated of course, but I don't think the Millsap comparison is the one that's fairest there.
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