2013-2014 Team Salaries Spreadsheet - Fantasy Basketball Cafe 2014
Fantasy Basketball Cafe


Return to FBC Salary Cap

2013-2014 Team Salaries Spreadsheet

Moderators: RedHopeful, silentjim, Fenris-77, DVauthrin, dasein

Re: 2013-2014 Team Salaries Spreadsheet

Postby silentjim » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:24 am

dcdoorknob wrote:I think a retirement means whatever contract was 'signed' previously no longer needs to be upheld to completion, which would mean that you also would not need to keep paying a waived contract. It's silly to keep paying a retired player, even if it's a waived contract imo.


What happens when someone buys out multiple years in a single year and then a player retires though? How do we put that money back?

That's why I don't think we can retroactively do this.
Image
silentjim
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 11493
(Past Year: 735)
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless.

Re: 2013-2014 Team Salaries Spreadsheet

Postby dasein » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:33 am

dcdoorknob wrote:I think a retirement means whatever contract was 'signed' previously no longer needs to be upheld to completion, which would mean that you also would not need to keep paying a waived contract. It's silly to keep paying a retired player, even if it's a waived contract imo.


hmm..when you put it that way....
Although, the way we have it, the contract comes of the books the offseason after (or during) the retirement announcement. If a guy retires mid season, currently you still have to pay him for the rest of the year, which does make sense given the way we handle everything else. So I don't think we want to void contracts immediatly upon announcement. Having said that, I think you do have a point in regard to this case.
So yeah, I could go either way on this one.
dasein
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach

User avatar

Posts: 935
(Past Year: 443)
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: 2013-2014 Team Salaries Spreadsheet

Postby dcdoorknob » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:35 am

silentjim wrote:
dcdoorknob wrote:I think a retirement means whatever contract was 'signed' previously no longer needs to be upheld to completion, which would mean that you also would not need to keep paying a waived contract. It's silly to keep paying a retired player, even if it's a waived contract imo.


What happens when someone buys out multiple years in a single year and then a player retires though? How do we put that money back?

That's why I don't think we can retroactively do this.


Don't see the need to even address that situation. If the guy buys out multiple years in one year, then after that year that contract is completed and what happens a later year with that player's retirement doesn't matter because the contract has been dealt with in entirety previously and he's no longer even under contract when he retires.

If a player IS under contract when he retires though, I think that contract should not have to be paid to completion for the remaining years on it, waived or not. Having any portion anyone's cap space tied up in retired players doesn't make sense to me.
dcdoorknob
High School Hoopster
High School Hoopster

Fantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 340
(Past Year: 122)
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: 2013-2014 Team Salaries Spreadsheet

Postby silentjim » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:14 am

I'm still torn on this a bit. It could create a weird loophole that shouldn't come up often since retirees don't happen that often. But realistically as mentioned above retired players contracts don't come off the books until the off season after, which means waiving a player, using the money to add another player, and then having the waived players salary come off the books later means a slight advantage is being created since under normal circumstances you'd have to wait x amount of time until the off season.
Image
silentjim
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 11493
(Past Year: 735)
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless.

Re: 2013-2014 Team Salaries Spreadsheet

Postby dasein » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:39 am

I'm not seeing the weird loophole jim. Lets use Roy as an example, say he was on a 2 year contract starting 2012-13. Now let say he started playing that season, got hurt (no imagination needed so far) and retired in January of the same season.

The way I think we would have handled this is his contract would still have counted for 2012-13 and been voided the following offseason. Would we have allowed the contract to be voided immediately upon the retirement announcement in Jan? No, I don't think so. Would we have allowed the manager to waive the contract at 75%? Hard to imagine we would not have- there are no other limitations on dropping contracts.

Well, assuming the manager can waive the contract after the mid-season retirement, once the offseason rolls around the situation looks identical to the Kidd version. In both cases we have a player who has

1. been waived with years still owing, and
2. retired.

I'm not seeing that the order of operation makes a difference here, as long as we maintain the next available offseason requirement.
dasein
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach

User avatar

Posts: 935
(Past Year: 443)
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: 2013-2014 Team Salaries Spreadsheet

Postby silentjim » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:51 pm

dasein wrote:I'm not seeing the weird loophole jim. Lets use Roy as an example, say he was on a 2 year contract starting 2012-13. Now let say he started playing that season, got hurt (no imagination needed so far) and retired in January of the same season.

The way I think we would have handled this is his contract would still have counted for 2012-13 and been voided the following offseason. Would we have allowed the contract to be voided immediately upon the retirement announcement in Jan? No, I don't think so. Would we have allowed the manager to waive the contract at 75%? Hard to imagine we would not have- there are no other limitations on dropping contracts.

Well, assuming the manager can waive the contract after the mid-season retirement, once the offseason rolls around the situation looks identical to the Kidd version. In both cases we have a player who has

1. been waived with years still owing, and
2. retired.

I'm not seeing that the order of operation makes a difference here, as long as we maintain the next available offseason requirement.


Let's use Kobe Bryant as an example. He's owed 13.5M this season and 13.5 next season. Let's say during this season the Lakers are horrible and he decides that this will be his last season since his real life contract expires and he decided to play overseas or whatever (injury too). And he has a Mariano Rivera type last season. Theoretically if I'm on a crappy team who isn't winning, or is he truly retires in the middle of the season, I have no reason to wait until the offseason to exercise the retired rule. I simply waive him now and free up 3.375M to spend this current season either via trade or free agent signing.

Basically if anyone retires I'd waive them immediately bypassing the rules of player retirement that requires I wait until the off season. I think the point of having the wait time was that guys say they are retiring a lot, and this forces some closure. In addition a retired player having his entire salary waived with no penalty to the manager is a pretty nice benefit that maybe shouldn't be tossed around so freely.

The other part to this is that after nsink waived Kidd, I actually picked him up and had him one a deal. Granted he's currently a free agent, but what would happen if Kidd did retire and I still had him on contract? Both nsink and I would get to waive his contract at no penalty? That seems weird.

Like I said I'm not 100% sold on my point of view. I'm just discussing.
Image
silentjim
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 11493
(Past Year: 735)
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless.

Re: 2013-2014 Team Salaries Spreadsheet

Postby dasein » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:21 pm

That's cool, discussion is good.

My take was that the point of voiding the contract is to get around the silliness of paying someone who isn't even getting paid by a team in real life. I don't take it as you have to wait out the season at the full salary as the price for clearing the books on the offseason. I'm not seeing a problem with waiving a guy after he retires as in the Kobe example (which is pretty much the same as my Roy example). In real life, if you retire half way through a season, I'd be surprised if your team has to pay out your full salary.

Not seeing a biggy in two teams clearing 1 guy of their books either. If Mike Miller were to retire in January, that's what would happen in real life I'd imagine (MIA and MEM currently paying him).
dasein
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach

User avatar

Posts: 935
(Past Year: 443)
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: 2013-2014 Team Salaries Spreadsheet

Postby Da Ruhl » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:20 pm

Quick unrelated question: on cap's team in the spreadsheet, looks like we might have lost a year on Austin Rivers? Thought he was 2.5 + 3 (TO)?

Also, on dcdoorknob, looks like Jordan Farmar is active again? Can't tell from the sheet whether he is still under contract though...

Thanks!

-DR
Da Ruhl
High School Hoopster
High School Hoopster


Posts: 167
(Past Year: 158)
Joined: 23 Jul 2013
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: 2013-2014 Team Salaries Spreadsheet

Postby nsink » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:37 pm

So can we put this before the competition committee for a vote. Or can someone give me a derivative ruling. The cap space may influence how I approach the rest of this Draft
nsink
College Captain
College Captain


Posts: 389
(Past Year: 118)
Joined: 7 Dec 2011
Home Cafe: Basketball

Re: 2013-2014 Team Salaries Spreadsheet

Postby silentjim » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:54 pm

nsink wrote:So can we put this before the competition committee for a vote. Or can someone give me a derivative ruling. The cap space may influence how I approach the rest of this Draft


I can't imagine it would come up too often again, so I think you can just apply the retired rule to Jason Kidd. ;-D The loophole should be minimal at best. And technically it would be available to everyone so it's not a loophole for just some.
Image
silentjim
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 11493
(Past Year: 735)
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless.

PreviousNext

Return to FBC Salary Cap

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues



Get Ready...
The 2014 NBA season starts in 6:56 hours
(and 98 days)


  • Fantasy Basketball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact