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2013-2014 Season Discussion

Moderators: silentjim, RedHopeful, Fenris-77, DVauthrin, dasein

Re: 2013-2014 Season Discussion

Postby dasein » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:01 pm

Being that I wrote the rules and have run admin for about 80% of these auctions I am pretty sure that the rule is as I stated.

Also I would have matched last night but the cafe was down. I think I may have mentioned that somewhere already.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Discussion

Postby scully19 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:03 am

It may not say 36H, but 24H after the auction ends is the only way that makes sense. I do agree with Jim tho, eventhough the NBA GM's actually use that rule as a way of tieing up other teams money and punishing them, I hate that practice and think everyone should react asap on these things (not saying you didn't dasein, to clarify).
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Discussion

Postby So-Tex » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:15 am

So there's two parts. One is I'm not 100% sure the rules state 36 hours, though I understand they can be read like that. And two, if you're going to match a guy simply do it and don't mess around.

I'm sorry Jim, not trying to single you out on this, but it doesn't HAVE to be written that way in the rules specifically...it's simple math!

Your last bid was at 2:49pm on Sunday. The auction "officially" closed at 2:49 AM, Monday morning, 12 hrs after. Dasein then has 24 hrs to match the bid. Which means he had until 2:49 AM, Tuesday morning to match. All that scenario is written exactly like that in the rules:

Restricted Free Agents are auctioned in the same way as regular Free Agents. At the end of the bidding process, the team that holds the RFA’s rights has 24 hours to match the highest bid reached at auction, and keep the player. For this reason, there is usually no incentive for the team holding RFA rights to enter the bidding for that player. When matching, the rights holder may also restructure the contract so long as it has the same total value as the auction winner, and follows the contract rules. The new contract structure should be clearly stated in the post that confirms the match.


It could be 12, 24, 36, 48 hrs, whatever...it's in there that the RFA owner has 24 HRS to match the bid. I'll give you this much, I was watching this auction just to see if dasein was going to match, and even I had the times wrong, as I thought he was missing on his chance to match. But after looking at the time stamp again, I corrected myself.

Now, if you're going to complain about someone going in during the 11th hour (cliche here, as it's actually 24) and finally match the bid...well then, get in line my friend! I've been frustrated with how some managers are making bids on auctions with 15, 10, even 5 mins to go. And I've even mentioned that to a few of them privately. But I haven't come on here to call anyone out. Why? Because they are WELL WITHIN THE RULES TO DO SO. Yes, it sucks...but that's part of this monster, and we have to deal with it.

I've said before the reason for this league isn't too manipulate rules to benefit yourself. Keep the spirit in mind.

Well then if THAT'S the case, then I believe we need to go back and look into a few auctions which were won under "questionable" circumstances. Because there's nothing in the "spirit" of the league that says, "Give the new guys the benefit of the doubt, while we give those who have been here for a while no lee way whatsoever." I even think it was nsink who said that he was held to a higher standard during his first year here, and was penalized a few times for rules infractions. So I can see where he's not feeling the "spirit" of the league, when Cap goes in and makes an illegal bid for Paul George, and gets away with it.

You've opened a "Pandora's Box" of sorts here...now, we need to figure out how we're going to deal with it going forward.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Discussion

Postby nykos » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:23 am

Just in case... i'll match G.Hayward offer Of 15.75M. I'll look at sign&trade options before deciding the contract structure.
Willing to accomodate any trade partner. Looking for assets again: picks first.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Discussion

Postby Da Ruhl » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:20 am

All,

My understanding at this point is that I've won KG and that Hayward has been officially matched. I have been and am going to make bidding and trading decisions on that basis going forward.

I'd be ok to re-open KG auction, but there's one auction we'd need to re-open as well that I chose to pass b/c I thought I had KG won. Yes, I know that is a pain in the rear, but if 12 hours goes by without a bid and I don't bid on another auction b/c at that point I assume I've won, I think that is reasonable (of course given that there are no RFA issues for KG).

We do need to make any decision ASAP as these decisions will only snowball (for instance, if we re-open the auction I didn't bid on, and then that guy has to re-open something, etc. etc.)

That said I very much sympathize with dasein here and that is why I'd be ok re-opening it (even though it hurts me) as long as it doesn't hurt me unfairly.

Hope that makes sense!

-DR

PS As the worst last minute bidder, the only thing I can say is that it is not intended as a tactic or to frustrate anyone and I'm trying to play in the spirit (and letter) of the rules.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Discussion

Postby dasein » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:40 am

Yes, consider the KG auction done. It's going to be either I wear this or we open up a chain reaction that effects a whole bunch of other managers. It's stupid, it sucks, but it is what it is.

Nykos has only half-assed matched at this point. I think we can assume that he keeps the contract structure as is unless he posts otherwise before his 24hrs is up.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Discussion

Postby Da Ruhl » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:49 am

dasein,

appreciate you taking one for the league. I do think that is perhaps the least complicated route, potentially, but it really sucks and is not fair. sorry man. bad situation.

re: nykos match, I mean that I've taken it to be a match from the point of view of releasing my cap hold from my prior winning bid on Hayward.

if that is in error, please let me know ASAP. it would mean my lopez bid would put me over the cap limit. :-(

thanks!!

-DR
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Discussion

Postby dasein » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:06 am

nykos wrote:Just in case... i'll match G.Hayward offer Of 15.75M. I'll look at sign&trade options before deciding the contract structure.
Willing to accomodate any trade partner. Looking for assets again: picks first.


This is a pretty clear (for nykos) match. What I'm saying is that unless he says otherwise before his 24hrs is up, the match will be at 5.25 x 4.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Discussion

Postby silentjim » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:28 am

So-Tex wrote:
So there's two parts. One is I'm not 100% sure the rules state 36 hours, though I understand they can be read like that. And two, if you're going to match a guy simply do it and don't mess around.

I'm sorry Jim, not trying to single you out on this, but it doesn't HAVE to be written that way in the rules specifically...it's simple math!

Your last bid was at 2:49pm on Sunday. The auction "officially" closed at 2:49 AM, Monday morning, 12 hrs after. Dasein then has 24 hrs to match the bid. Which means he had until 2:49 AM, Tuesday morning to match. All that scenario is written exactly like that in the rules:

Restricted Free Agents are auctioned in the same way as regular Free Agents. At the end of the bidding process, the team that holds the RFA’s rights has 24 hours to match the highest bid reached at auction, and keep the player. For this reason, there is usually no incentive for the team holding RFA rights to enter the bidding for that player. When matching, the rights holder may also restructure the contract so long as it has the same total value as the auction winner, and follows the contract rules. The new contract structure should be clearly stated in the post that confirms the match.


It could be 12, 24, 36, 48 hrs, whatever...it's in there that the RFA owner has 24 HRS to match the bid. I'll give you this much, I was watching this auction just to see if dasein was going to match, and even I had the times wrong, as I thought he was missing on his chance to match. But after looking at the time stamp again, I corrected myself.

Now, if you're going to complain about someone going in during the 11th hour (cliche here, as it's actually 24) and finally match the bid...well then, get in line my friend! I've been frustrated with how some managers are making bids on auctions with 15, 10, even 5 mins to go. And I've even mentioned that to a few of them privately. But I haven't come on here to call anyone out. Why? Because they are WELL WITHIN THE RULES TO DO SO. Yes, it sucks...but that's part of this monster, and we have to deal with it.

I've said before the reason for this league isn't too manipulate rules to benefit yourself. Keep the spirit in mind.

Well then if THAT'S the case, then I believe we need to go back and look into a few auctions which were won under "questionable" circumstances. Because there's nothing in the "spirit" of the league that says, "Give the new guys the benefit of the doubt, while we give those who have been here for a while no lee way whatsoever." I even think it was nsink who said that he was held to a higher standard during his first year here, and was penalized a few times for rules infractions. So I can see where he's not feeling the "spirit" of the league, when Cap goes in and makes an illegal bid for Paul George, and gets away with it.

You've opened a "Pandora's Box" of sorts here...now, we need to figure out how we're going to deal with it going forward.


I agree that the rules say 36 hours to match an RFA, but why would we allow essentially three times as much time to match if we're only giving 12 hours ofr an actual bid? Some of the rules need to be looked at again and revised.

For the record, I don't believe we are letting the new guys get away with anything. Illegal bids in the past were always based on either going over the cap, not the structure of how you write it. People make mistakes in what they type and write. And not to be mean to Kal Elen, but when we were forced to use rules violations, it wasn't fun. I don't like the idea of having to penalize people, unless they make a mistake or miscalculation that hurts the integrity of the league. This shouldn't be the committee judging and punishing people left and right.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Discussion

Postby silentjim » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:31 am

Should we just start nominating the next group since we aren't delaying anyway?
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