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Max Salary Discussion

Moderators: RedHopeful, silentjim, Fenris-77, DVauthrin, dasein

Max Salary Discussion

Postby silentjim » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:13 pm

I think we need some discussion on max salaries. Should they be limited to 20M? Yes or no? Why?

Does the limit stop us from making big mistakes. :-D
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby Fenris-77 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:14 am

If guys want to pay KD or LbJ 25 or 30M they're welcome to. I don't think it's a good idea for the most part, and you won't see me paying that premium, but if other guys want to I say why not. Incremental salary raises above 20M should probably be in increments of at least 500K if not 1M.

And yes, the limit does stop us from making mistakes with the top tier guys, but those potential mistakes probably pale in comparison to the mistakes made on mid-range salary guys. At least with LeBron you have LeBron, regardless of the salary you're paying him. That's a step better than paying a non-entity 8M or more a year because you paid him on spec and he didn't work out.
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby TheRobSays » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:41 am

I am opposed to a rule change like that because so much of the planning in this league is based on having a max salary of $20M. If you throw that out but stick to the hard cap then you have fundamentally changed the league in my opinion. People have already shown they are scared of the $20M (see Wade, Dwayne) and for good reason, this is a BIG chunk of the salary cap!
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby dasein » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:52 pm

Says the guy who owns Lebron. :-D

I'm for having no max salary, for the following reasons:

1. The 9-cat fantasy impact of Durant and LeBron last year was worth closer to $30 in our league than it was $20. Consequently, not only are the owners getting unmatched production, but they are getting it with close to a 50% discount mandated by our rules. This is less than ideal to say the least. In a competitive redraft auction league, you'd expect to pay close to half of your budget for one of these guys. Expecting to pay 40% of your budget in this league is not unreasonable.

2. If there was no max salary, there would be no need for an auction tie-breaker. There is no flawless tie-breaker system so if we can do without one, all the better.

3. Currently, it is close to impossible for anyone other than the current owner to get hold of a max player. Scraping the max would change this in a fair way, rather than an arbitrary way.

If not having a max salary is too scary for some reason, then a weaker option would be to bump the max up to 30M. This would solve problem 1 above, but 2 and 3 would almost certainly still be there.

Of course with a hard cap and minimum roster size of 11, there would still effectively be a max salary of 72.5M (with 10 minimum contracts). Giving any one player anything close to this would obviously be ridiculous so for all intents and purposes it would be correct to say there is no max.

Is there a chance that people will overpay for players? Sure, they do it now and have to live with the consequences. I don't see how raising the amount we're allowed to spend changes anything fundamentally. It just allows the top players to get paid what they are worth.
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby nykos » Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:11 pm

100% agree with Dasein.
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby silentjim » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:22 pm

TheRobSays wrote:I am opposed to a rule change like that because so much of the planning in this league is based on having a max salary of $20M. If you throw that out but stick to the hard cap then you have fundamentally changed the league in my opinion. People have already shown they are scared of the $20M (see Wade, Dwayne) and for good reason, this is a BIG chunk of the salary cap!


Technically speaking when we moved from a soft cap/hard cap we changed the league fundamentally to begin with, which made the max players a little awkward to begin with.

Though I agree on Dasein's first point, I don't think we can really think about that too much. Between injuries, off years, who knows what else, saying x player should be paid x amount based on his production is a slipper slope since we clearly have guys who vastly outproduce and underproduce their current salaries. It's would you rather have Jimmy Butlers and Eric Bledsoes at .25M and their production or Lebron's at 20M? Hard to state one is better.

That being said, I think points 2 and 3 are extremely valid and though I'd be annoyed if I owned Lebron or Durant, or heck possibly even a few other superstars, I would understand that having a league where I had one of these guys for eternity wasn't really that fun. At the same time, I also wouldn't mind someone overpaying for one of these guys thus making other players that more affordable and allowing me to take a team in a different direction or strategy.
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby TheRobSays » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:31 pm

I agree but I also sacrificed big in the first years to sign LBJ just to have his ownership rights! Remember there was no "max" when we first went after these guys (Year 1) and he cost me a fortune. To have this taken away is not fair at all. Same thing for young guys and teams that sucked when they drafted them but are now reaping the rewards!

I could be in favour of some kind of thing where after a certain number of years/age there is no longer a maximum for these players. This would help with your point 3. If this is the case it needs to happen slowly or you need to provide for a soft cap so you can sign your own superstar at all times and not have to gut your roster to do it.
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby Fenris-77 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:45 pm

Hmm. Kind of the like the current CBA where there are levels of max salary. Interesting. :-? I'm not sure how workable it is set next our current salary structure, but it's an idea with merit.

Also, I don't think there's anything inherently unfair about paying closer to marker value for the best players in the game.
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby silentjim » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:19 pm

TheRobSays wrote:I agree but I also sacrificed big in the first years to sign LBJ just to have his ownership rights! Remember there was no "max" when we first went after these guys (Year 1) and he cost me a fortune. To have this taken away is not fair at all. Same thing for young guys and teams that sucked when they drafted them but are now reaping the rewards!

I could be in favour of some kind of thing where after a certain number of years/age there is no longer a maximum for these players. This would help with your point 3. If this is the case it needs to happen slowly or you need to provide for a soft cap so you can sign your own superstar at all times and not have to gut your roster to do it.


I had pseudo forgotten about the first year and bidding x amount the first year. What was the rule then? Over 30M and you could only sign a two year deal and over 20M was a three year? That's what I can tell from old spreadsheets anyway. You're Lebron bid for example was 36M, 20M, and then he's resigned at 20M ever since then.

So technically speaking you only sacrificed the first year (As did the Chris Paul, Wade, Durant, Granger, Howard and Bryant owners).

I think the "so you can sign your own superstar at all times and not have to gut your roster to do it" part throws me off. I don't think anyone ever intended for teams to have the same players for eternity, hence the 4 year max deals, but I can also see where you're coming from. In the real NBA we just don't see guys stay with the same team anymore either. In fact they take less money to win (IE Lebron James, Dwight Howard, etc).
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby Fenris-77 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:39 pm

No max salary is also perfectly in line with how a lot of fantasy auctions work anyway, so it's not as though there's no precedent for the idea.

I'd also be ok keeping those max years rules in place for deals over 20M. That would, as much as anything else, help protect teams from themselves. There's also some cache in having the best players hit the market every couple of years, as opposed to every four.
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