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Max Salary Discussion

Moderators: RedHopeful, silentjim, Fenris-77, DVauthrin, dasein

Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby TheRobSays » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:14 pm

There is only one argument against change and that is the rules were established from Day 1 and we all played by them. Please look at the lovely contracts people have handed out as reasons why you have to be careful (see - Calderon, Jose) in this league!

If we all want to move away from the $20M max I can live with it. Even if we go to no max I can live with this. But you need to give us more than one year to plan. Otherwise we are basically working with a limited salary cap this year because all of our other deals have been based on having the ability to renew a contract (for me LBJ) at $20M. Look at my team and my contracts and you will see I have to be careful with what I do THIS year or it would take me out of LBJ (or Durant, or CP3) bidding when he becomes FA. I would ask for the option to extend at current levels (or all to become a FA if you choose to gamble) for one additional year if we decide to put this new rule into place and that the no max salaries become effective starting this year. If we are going for a smaller change ($25M cap) then this is not necessary and can be ignored.
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby RocketsDWM » Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:39 am

Doesnt have to be all or nothing either. Could do incremental changes in max salary with a no max rule coming into effect 3 or 4 years down the road.
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby silentjim » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:39 am

I'll say that I do think our Max is too low, but that I do think having no max salary makes this teeter dangerously towards an auction league and I'd like to prevent that. I'd like for us to determine what we want the max to be and incrementally increase that over say three years. That's my thought at this second anyway. :-B
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby dasein » Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:07 am

TheRobSays wrote:There is only one argument against change and that is the rules were established from Day 1 and we all played by them. Please look at the lovely contracts people have handed out as reasons why you have to be careful (see - Calderon, Jose) in this league!


There have been plenty of rules that were in place on day 1 that have been kicked to the curb, all with good reason. Also, most (all?) of those Calderon-type contracts were handed out in year 1. Many of them by managers who didn't stick around longer than 1 year. I think the league has learned a lot about player value since then.

TheRobSays wrote: If we all want to move away from the $20M max I can live with it. Even if we go to no max I can live with this. But you need to give us more than one year to plan. Otherwise we are basically working with a limited salary cap this year because all of our other deals have been based on having the ability to renew a contract (for me LBJ) at $20M. Look at my team and my contracts and you will see I have to be careful with what I do THIS year or it would take me out of LBJ (or Durant, or CP3) bidding when he becomes FA. I would ask for the option to extend at current levels (or all to become a FA if you choose to gamble) for one additional year if we decide to put this new rule into place and that the no max salaries become effective starting this year. If we are going for a smaller change ($25M cap) then this is not necessary and can be ignored.


Agree that everyone is better off with the rule being changed sooner rather than latter. I don't see any value in having this max raised over time- just makes things more confusing without really solving anything. I don't think being allowed to extend your discount for another year is acceptable though. ;-)

I also see no reason for doing so. I've looked at your team and you have no money on the books for 2015 (when LeBron is a FA). You currently only have 2 contracts on the books for 2014. You have all the flexibility in the world so I'm not really sure what the problem is. Yes, you'll have to be careful throwing money around this year, but that's just a choice you (and others) need to make. No different to what the Lakers and the Cavs are doing this season, avoiding long term money in the hope they can land Lebron next year. See how increasing the cap would actually made us more like the NBA. With the current rules, there would be no point for anyone other than Jim to plan for making a run at LeBron.

This thread has slowed down a lot, so seems like everyone has said their piece. So how about we get a vote going? I'd suggest the options should be.

A. No Change
B. No Max
C. 40M max with a really simple tie-breaker ?

A bit of a decision to make over what the max would be in the last option obviously. Whatever it is, it should be at a level where the tie breaker never actually happens, so I wouldn't want to waste time on something elaborate. Something like random selection or regular season finish from previous year would be fine. I think for me, 35M would be the minimum max, as long as it included a simple tie breaker that didn't guarantee ownership to the incumbent.
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby So-Tex » Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:17 am

I second that we should put it to a vote using the options dasein has put forth.

Probably would be best to start a new thread, and PM everyone so they have a chance to review then vote.
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby silentjim » Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:35 am

I'm not saying BBM is correct, but when you use 16 teams, 16 players, and $75, Kevin Durant is worth $19. Now I know a lot of bench slots are going unused, but if you change it to 16 teams, 10 players, and $75 then Durant, Lebron, and Paul are all $30. And technically speaking it should be 16 teams, 10 players, and 73.5 if the other 6 players are all due mins which gives $29, I know the point of having no max or a high max is to avoid the tiebreaker, but are we talking about a limit that's too far to begin with?
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby dasein » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:17 am

silentjim wrote:I'm not saying BBM is correct, but when you use 16 teams, 16 players, and $75, Kevin Durant is worth $19. Now I know a lot of bench slots are going unused, but if you change it to 16 teams, 10 players, and $75 then Durant, Lebron, and Paul are all $30. And technically speaking it should be 16 teams, 10 players, and 73.5 if the other 6 players are all due mins which gives $29, I know the point of having no max or a high max is to avoid the tiebreaker, but are we talking about a limit that's too far to begin with?


Well if the point is to avoid the tiebreaker (a secondary goal, but still a goal) then setting the max at a price that would be irrational to pay would achieve it no? That was where I was going with the 35. If you were to set the max at 30M, then it might be a fair to pay that for Durant, so people probably would, which means we're back to tie breaker territory again.

So summary,

30M: probably achieves fair value goal, doesn't achieve tie breaker goal
35M achieves fair value goal, probably achieves tie breaker goal
40M: achieves fair value goal, achieves tie breaker goal
Max: same as above

That's how I see it. I honestly don't understand why some people are in love with the idea of having a max salary, but if it makes you happy, that's pretty much the range of options with differing degrees of strength.
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby Fenris-77 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:28 am

That's just silly. If you're going to pick a number so high you think no one will ever pay it, just go no max and not worry about tie-break rules at all.
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby silentjim » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:39 am

Fenris-77 wrote:That's just silly. If you're going to pick a number so high you think no one will ever pay it, just go no max and not worry about tie-break rules at all.


Yeah. I guess I'm asking questions because I'm trying to figure things out. Just like Rob, are people just wanting the option to throw a crap ton of money and Lebron and Durant? If we're removing max salary because tie breakers suck, why not remove/fix tie breakers since that's the real problem? I know we discussed certain players surpassing their contracts by a decent margin, but isn't that the point of this league. to get more bang for your buck?
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Re: Max Salary Discussion

Postby dasein » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:40 am

Fenris-77 wrote:That's just silly. If you're going to pick a number so high you think no one will ever pay it, just go no max and not worry about tie-break rules at all.


That's been my argument the whole time. ;-D

Like I said, I don't understand having a max just for the sake of having a max. But some seem to want it so I put it there as an option.

I'm more than happy to have the vote be
A. No Change
B. No Max
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