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Isaiah Thomas value: real or imaginary

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Isaiah Thomas value: real or imaginary

Postby bujfan2030 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:35 am

Thomas is the kind of player that when you look at his #'s you tell yourself he should be an NBA starter. He's an efficient shooter who doesn't turn the ball over. Yet, for the 2nd season in a row, he finds himself, at best, in a time share situation. This year he's at least being replaced by a guy who's an above average passer. Still according to most of our general advanced stats, Thomas is the superior player.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=vasqugr01&y1=2013&p2=thomais02&y2=2013#advanced::none
So are the #'s wrong in Thomas case. Or is he being used at the wrong position? What is it, that the #'s we do have, aren't showing us about Thomas game?
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Re: Isaiah Thomas value: real or imaginary

Postby Phil O'Pastry » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:52 am

How about if we change the criteria so they are both measured on just last season?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=vasqugr01&y1=2013&p2=thomais02&y2=2013

Personally I think it comes down more so to style of play. Mike Malone has gone on record stating he wants a play making point guard. Thomas looks more suited to be a spark plug of the bench. Plus, Thomas is pretty short and can get abused by opposing guards on the defensive end.
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Re: Isaiah Thomas value: real or imaginary

Postby bujfan2030 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:25 am

Phil O'Pastry wrote
Thomas looks more suited to be a spark plug of the bench.
Alright but that seems to be an argument for the #'s being wrong. And I would venture to say that Thomas is better defensively than you think. Or at least that Vasquez isn't a significant upgrade in that department.
I'm not saying you're wrong. It's entirely possible his skill set doesn't fit a Starting point guard in the NBA. That Ast% is not great. Among Guards who Average more than 20 min a game and had a usage of at least 20% Thomas ranks 35th. But that Offensive rating indicates a pretty special player and I think a team could benefit from giving him decent minutes.

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Re: Isaiah Thomas value: real or imaginary

Postby RedHopeful » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:35 pm

There is so much more to the game than just being an efficient offensive player. Of course, his advanced #'s are going to look good if he fares well in this department. However, the game is much more intricate than just a few points of data. Phil O Pastry touched on it -- the lack of a more complete game hurts his prospects of being a starting PG in this league. Although Vasquez isn't going to be a force defensively, he at least has some size advantage going for him. More importantly, his ability to get everyone else on the floor involved first is what the Kings have needed for some time. Thomas would indeed be best utilized in a Nate Robinson type of role, and that's exactly what his #'s point to.
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Re: Isaiah Thomas value: real or imaginary

Postby bokzg » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:35 pm

Reiterating what others have said, a lot of it is fit and team needs. The Kings have had a culture of selfishness and poor ball movement for the past few seasons that they're trying to change. Isaiah, while a talented offensive player when it comes to scoring the ball himself, won't help as much as Vasquez in that regard. The Kings have no shortage of guys looking to score the ball, so Vasquez's skill set and mentality becomes more valuable.
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Re: Isaiah Thomas value: real or imaginary

Postby Fantasy Sports Genie » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:17 pm

I should really look at his advanced numbers more carefully, I guess. Living in the Bay Area, I can pick up Sacramento sports radio. I think Grant Napier is an idiot, and the callers exhibit some extreme homerism, but I've always been particularly puzzled at how they repeatedly spell out Thomas as some sort of savior, how stunned they were when he didn't make his all rookie team (Napier thought he had an outside chance at ROY), etc. etc. Even recently, I listened to Shaq talk about the prospects of them building a winner around Cousins and Thomas, and just scratched my head, thinking, "I'm not even 100% convinced he's the best point guard *on your roster*". Sounds like the sentiment here more or less agrees with me: he's not awful, but he's nothing amazing either. But perhaps he has some strengths I'm underappreciating.
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Re: Isaiah Thomas value: real or imaginary

Postby bujfan2030 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:59 pm

I'm perfectly willing to say the Kings could do better at the point passing wise. But what's to stop SAC from starting him at the 2.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=thomais02&y1=2013&p2=thornma01&y2=2013&p3=robinna01&y3=2013
And Red comparing him to nate just hurts. Nate had to put up a career year from 3 just to Equal Isaiah this past season
Genie, For better or worse he was your best PG last year.
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Re: Isaiah Thomas value: real or imaginary

Postby geodbear » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:05 pm

bujfan2030 wrote:But what's to stop SAC from starting him at the 2.


Him being 5' 9". But, alongside Vasquez, you could match him with the opposing PG defensively.

The comparison to Robinson is that both are suited for specialized roles because both have similar limitations on the defensive side due to their size.
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Re: Isaiah Thomas value: real or imaginary

Postby Fantasy Sports Genie » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:59 pm

bujfan2030 wrote:Genie, For better or worse he was your best PG last year.

Oh, he wasn't *my* best PG last year. I'm sure of that :-D

Now sure, he was probably the Kings best PG last year. But that is a far cry from him necessarily being a piece you'd build a franchise around.
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